edges of gateways

[Auwerda1]

I was thinking about gateways, and did a little googling, and it seems that
it is accepted that an open gateway can still cut things. That is, if you
stumbled into the edge while you were walking through, you could lose your
arm or head or cut yourself in half. Am I correct in thinking this?

All those injuries assumed you were in the gateway and hit the edge, but
what would happen if you walked into the edge from the outside? Gateways are
described as being a vertical line from the side, so if you didn't see it
and walked through it would you be dead?

Which makes me wonder what happens if you walk around a gateway? Is it still
there on the other side? Can you walk through it from the other side?

Auwerda

[Vinny R.]

Post by Auwerda1
Which makes me wonder what happens if you walk around a gateway? Is it still
there on the other side? Can you walk through it from the other side?
Auwerda

Somewhere at the beginning of tPOD, in an Elayne POV (when they're
leaving the Kin farm, pursued by Seanchan), she mentions you can see
through the back of a gateway, and that it looks something like smokey
glass. I think she also mentioned that walking through in that
direction, however, would be futile; something like hitting a brick wall.

As for the rest of your questions, I was thinking that maybe you only
get cut by the gateway if it's still forming or closing; otherwise, it
just stops you. On the other hand, if you consider the fact that the
side of a gateway is really thin, like a knife-edge, then *running* into
it would probably have the same effect as running into a knife...


- Vinny R.

[Mark Ferguson]

Post by Vinny R.
As for the rest of your questions, I was thinking that maybe you only
get cut by the gateway if it's still forming or closing; otherwise, it
just stops you. On the other hand, if you consider the fact that the
side of a gateway is really thin, like a knife-edge, then *running* into
it would probably have the same effect as running into a knife...
- Vinny R.

But the edge of a gateway is _infinitely_ thin, so therefore it should require
infinitely small force against the side of the gateway for it to chop you up.
Think of how as knives get sharper and sharper, they require less force to cut.

Mark

[Chucky & Janica]

Once upon a time - for example, Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:33:20 -0700 -
there was this guy, or something, called Mark Ferguson

Post by Mark Ferguson
But the edge of a gateway is _infinitely_ thin, so therefore it should require
infinitely small force against the side of the gateway for it to chop you up.
Think of how as knives get sharper and sharper, they require less force to cut.

If it was infinitely thin, surely an opening gateway would be heralded
by a number of nuclear fission explosions.

Let's get technical about this! It's science, after all!

*wink*

I agree that it is extremely thin and cuts through well-nigh anything,
but I don't know if it's *that* thin.






C&J

[Mark Ferguson]

Post by Chucky & Janica

Post by Mark Ferguson
But the edge of a gateway is _infinitely_ thin, so therefore it should require
infinitely small force against the side of the gateway for it to chop you up.
Think of how as knives get sharper and sharper, they require less force to cut.

If it was infinitely thin, surely an opening gateway would be heralded
by a number of nuclear fission explosions.
Let's get technical about this! It's science, after all!
*wink*
I agree that it is extremely thin and cuts through well-nigh anything,
but I don't know if it's *that* thin.

I hadn't thought about that. Good point!

[Jonas Karlsson]

Post by Mark Ferguson

Post by Chucky & Janica

Post by Mark Ferguson
But the edge of a gateway is _infinitely_ thin, so therefore it should require
infinitely small force against the side of the gateway for it to chop you up.
Think of how as knives get sharper and sharper, they require less force to cut.

If it was infinitely thin, surely an opening gateway would be heralded
by a number of nuclear fission explosions.
Let's get technical about this! It's science, after all!
*wink*
I agree that it is extremely thin and cuts through well-nigh anything,
but I don't know if it's *that* thin.

I hadn't thought about that. Good point!

If it's infinitely thin, then you could walk right thru it without even
noticing, as you all do everyday with all the atoms in the air..... but
as the gateway in not that thin, who knows..

[Jacob Sewell]

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 11:34:28 +0100, Jonas Karlsson <***@spam.com>
wrote:

<snip discussion of the thinness of the edges of gateways, and
possible effects if they're infinitely thin, e.g. nuclear fission>

Post by Jonas Karlsson
If it's infinitely thin, then you could walk right thru it without even
noticing, as you all do everyday with all the atoms in the air..... but

Um, fwah?

The atoms/molecules in air are not infinitely thin.

The atoms/molecules in air do not pass through my body, noticed or
not.

Post by Jonas Karlsson
as the gateway in not that thin, who knows..

It's possible that the gateway weave has some kind of solidity built
into the edge to prevent the aforementioned nuclear explosions, but I
think it's far more likely that RJ simply didn't think about that when
he came up with the idea. I mean, if you're building in enough safety
bumper to protect atoms, why not enough to protect hands?

No, I think the edge of the gateway is infinitely thin, or to phrase
it better, there is no edge. If you were to walk into a gateway from
the side, you wouldn't feel any pain, but all of a sudden blood, other
bodily fluids, and nerve impulses that tried to cross the plane of the
gateway would either be blocked completely, or diverted however far
away through the gateway.

--
Jacob Sewell
jasewell gmail com
"If it weren't for the French, we'd all be speaking English now."
--Jacob Sewell

[Leigh Butler]

Post by Jacob Sewell
<snip discussion of the thinness of the edges of gateways, and
possible effects if they're infinitely thin, e.g. nuclear fission>

Post by Jonas Karlsson
If it's infinitely thin, then you could walk right thru it without even
noticing, as you all do everyday with all the atoms in the air..... but

Um, fwah?
The atoms/molecules in air are not infinitely thin.
The atoms/molecules in air do not pass through my body, noticed or
not.

Yeah, but what about neutrinos?

Huh? Huh?

Also, someone was speculating about it but I don't know if anyone
answered - on the subject of whether one can enter a gateway from the
opposite side, ISTR that one of the Supergirls had asked Moggy about it
and she had found the very idea horrifying.

I could be thinking about something else, though.

[Vinny R.]

Post by Leigh Butler

Post by Jacob Sewell
<snip discussion of the thinness of the edges of gateways, and
possible effects if they're infinitely thin, e.g. nuclear fission>

Post by Jonas Karlsson
If it's infinitely thin, then you could walk right thru it without even
noticing, as you all do everyday with all the atoms in the air..... but

Um, fwah?
The atoms/molecules in air are not infinitely thin.
The atoms/molecules in air do not pass through my body, noticed or
not.

Yeah, but what about neutrinos?
Huh? Huh?
Also, someone was speculating about it but I don't know if anyone
answered - on the subject of whether one can enter a gateway from the
opposite side, ISTR that one of the Supergirls had asked Moggy about it
and she had found the very idea horrifying.
I could be thinking about something else, though.

Egwene questioned Moggy regarding opening a gateway at the wrong end of
a Skimming platform (in her case, at the stern instead of the bow) and
Moggy was frightened by the idea. In the passage I mentioned earlier
(leaving the Kin's farm), I'm pretty sure it's mentioned that walking
into the back of a gateway is like walking into a glass wall.

- Vinny R.

[Mitchell Swan]

Post by Vinny R.
Egwene questioned Moggy regarding opening a gateway at the wrong end of
a Skimming platform (in her case, at the stern instead of the bow) and
Moggy was frightened by the idea. In the passage I mentioned earlier
(leaving the Kin's farm), I'm pretty sure it's mentioned that walking
into the back of a gateway is like walking into a glass wall.

From: A Crown of Swords - Chap 12 - "A Morning of Victory"

After a time - it was hard to tell how long exactly, but she
thought well under half an hour - the barge stopped suddenly. Nothing
altered in the feel, nor in the weaves she held. She simply knew that
one moment they were speeding through the blackness, and the next
standing still. Opening a gateway just at the barge's bow - she was not
sure where one opened at the stern would lead, and not anxious to find
out, frankly; Moghedien had found the very idea frightening - she
motioned Lan to go ahead. The barge only existed so long as she was
present, another thing like Tel'aran'rhiod.


I can't remember enough of a qoute to pick out the reference to walking
through the back. If someone remembers enough to give me couple of
exact words, I'll pull the whole quote for you.

[Karsten]

Post by Leigh Butler
Also, someone was speculating about it but I don't know if anyone
answered - on the subject of whether one can enter a gateway from the
opposite side, ISTR that one of the Supergirls had asked Moggy about it
and she had found the very idea horrifying.

Wasn't that on the subject of women making a gateway the same way as men
(punching hole in pattern or such) ?

Karsten

[Jacob Sewell]

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 12:46:36 +0100, "Karsten"

Post by Karsten

Post by Leigh Butler
Also, someone was speculating about it but I don't know if anyone
answered - on the subject of whether one can enter a gateway from the
opposite side, ISTR that one of the Supergirls had asked Moggy about it
and she had found the very idea horrifying.

Wasn't that on the subject of women making a gateway the same way as men
(punching hole in pattern or such) ?

Moggy was indeed horrified by Eg's description of how men Travel (in
LoC, right after Eg is raised), but this specific instance seems to be
related to the question of opening up a gateway on the "wrong" side of
a Skimming platform. (ACoS, A Morning of Victory)

Come to think of it, "Moggy was horrified by it," isn't really a very
useful descriptive phrase. It needs narrowing down.

--
Jacob Sewell
jasewell gmail com
"If it weren't for the French, we'd all be speaking English now."
--Jacob Sewell

[Paul W. Lints]

Date: 12/9/2004 3:46 AM Pacific Standard Time
Wasn't that on the subject of women making a gateway the same way as men
(punching hole in pattern or such) ?

Men bore a hole. Women create a similarity between two places, which allows
them to step from one to the other.

[Karsten]

Post by Paul W. Lints

Date: 12/9/2004 3:46 AM Pacific Standard Time
Wasn't that on the subject of women making a gateway the same way as men
(punching hole in pattern or such) ?

Men bore a hole. Women create a similarity between two places, which allows
them to step from one to the other.

Yes..OK... but wasn't it this idea Moggy found horrofying ?? (I believe that
Egween suggested that women should bore a hole before creating a gateway the
correct way)

Karsten

[Auwerda1]

Post by Karsten

Post by Paul W. Lints

Date: 12/9/2004 3:46 AM Pacific Standard Time
Wasn't that on the subject of women making a gateway the same way as men
(punching hole in pattern or such) ?

Men bore a hole. Women create a similarity between two places, which allows
them to step from one to the other.

Yes..OK... but wasn't it this idea Moggy found horrofying ?? (I believe
that Egween suggested that women should bore a hole before creating a
gateway the correct way)
Karsten

No, Moggy told her that boring a hole through the pattern is how men Travel
and if Egwene tried it she would be sucked into the space between the
threads of the pattern and not return. Instead they create a similarity.
This is from LoC chpt 37 "When Battle Begins"

In ACoS chpt. 12 "A Morning of Victory," When Egwene is taking Lan to Nyn
by way of skimming, she remembers Moggy being horrified at the idea of
opening a gateway on the back of her skimming platform instead of the front.


Auwerda

[Karsten]

Post by Auwerda1

Post by Karsten

Post by Paul W. Lints

Date: 12/9/2004 3:46 AM Pacific Standard Time
Wasn't that on the subject of women making a gateway the same way as men
(punching hole in pattern or such) ?

Men bore a hole. Women create a similarity between two places, which allows
them to step from one to the other.

Yes..OK... but wasn't it this idea Moggy found horrofying ?? (I believe
that Egween suggested that women should bore a hole before creating a
gateway the correct way)
Karsten

No, Moggy told her that boring a hole through the pattern is how men
Travel and if Egwene tried it she would be sucked into the space between
the threads of the pattern and not return. Instead they create a
similarity. This is from LoC chpt 37 "When Battle Begins"

This was what I meant :o)

Post by Auwerda1
In ACoS chpt. 12 "A Morning of Victory," When Egwene is taking Lan to Nyn
by way of skimming, she remembers Moggy being horrified at the idea of
opening a gateway on the back of her skimming platform instead of the front.

OK ...... I'll be quiet now ;o)

Karsten

[Jasper Janssen]

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:46:43 +0200, Chucky & Janica

Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:33:20 -0700 -
there was this guy, or something, called Mark Ferguson

Post by Mark Ferguson
But the edge of a gateway is _infinitely_ thin, so therefore it should require
infinitely small force against the side of the gateway for it to chop you up.
Think of how as knives get sharper and sharper, they require less force to cut.

If it was infinitely thin, surely an opening gateway would be heralded
by a number of nuclear fission explosions.

More like a nice lightshow of ionized air and loose electrons rejoining,
and some ozone of course, mostly. I'm not entirely sure what the
likelihood would be of the nucleus of an air atom being in the way of the
gateway plane at any given time, but I suspect it's fairly low. Even then,
you'd get nucleuses that were severed in half, which could some really
weird things but exploding isn't really one of them. Hell, an antiproton
doesn't explode, even.


Jasper

[morbid]

Post by Jasper Janssen

Post by Chucky & Janica
If it was infinitely thin, surely an opening gateway would be

heralded

Post by Jasper Janssen

Post by Chucky & Janica
by a number of nuclear fission explosions.

More like a nice lightshow of ionized air and loose electrons

rejoining,

Post by Jasper Janssen
and some ozone of course, mostly. I'm not entirely sure what the
likelihood would be of the nucleus of an air atom being in the way of the
gateway plane at any given time, but I suspect it's fairly low. Even then,
you'd get nucleuses that were severed in half, which could some really
weird things but exploding isn't really one of them. Hell, an

antiproton

Post by Jasper Janssen
doesn't explode, even.
Jasper

Something to do with critical mass and the density and stability of the
surrounding atoms I believe. Have to be able to create an ongoing chain
reaction. But the whole idea of magic suggests some deviation from the
currently accepted rules of physics.

[Chucky & Janica]

Once upon a time - for example, 9 Dec 2004 21:46:10 -0800 - there was

Post by morbid
Something to do with critical mass and the density and stability of the
surrounding atoms I believe. Have to be able to create an ongoing chain
reaction. But the whole idea of magic suggests some deviation from the
currently accepted rules of physics.

Hee hee, sorry. I just mentioned it for fun. Personally, I don't think
physics have much to do with it, and I don't think the gateway is
sharp enough to cut atoms in half.

Speaking of physics, has anybody theorised the molecular structure of
cuendillar yet?







C&J

[Chucky & Janica]

Once upon a time - for example, 9 Dec 2004 21:46:10 -0800 - there was

Post by morbid
Something to do with critical mass and the density and stability of the
surrounding atoms I believe. Have to be able to create an ongoing chain
reaction. But the whole idea of magic suggests some deviation from the
currently accepted rules of physics.

Hee hee, sorry. I just mentioned it for fun. Personally, I don't think
physics have much to do with it, and I don't think the gateway is
sharp enough to cut atoms in half.

Speaking of physics, has anybody theorised the molecular structure of
cuendillar yet?

Uh, physics? I guess I mean chemistry. Whatever.





C&J

[Grahame Anon]

Post by Chucky & Janica
Speaking of physics, has anybody theorised the molecular structure of
cuendillar yet?
Uh, physics? I guess I mean chemistry. Whatever.

Chemistry is just very physics on a very small scale :)

Post by Chucky & Janica
C&J

[Chucky & Janica]

Once upon a time - for example, Sat, 11 Dec 2004 01:27:02 GMT - there

Post by Grahame Anon

Post by Chucky & Janica
Speaking of physics, has anybody theorised the molecular structure of
cuendillar yet?
Uh, physics? I guess I mean chemistry. Whatever.

Chemistry is just very physics on a very small scale :)

Oooh! Let the faction-wars begin!










C&J

[IceStorm]

Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, Sat, 11 Dec 2004 01:27:02 GMT - there

Post by Grahame Anon

Post by Chucky & Janica
Speaking of physics, has anybody theorised the molecular structure of
cuendillar yet?
Uh, physics? I guess I mean chemistry. Whatever.

Chemistry is just very physics on a very small scale :)

and when the scale gets even smaller, they go back to calling it physics :) all
nice fun, ain't it ;)

Post by Chucky & Janica
Oooh! Let the faction-wars begin!

is science maths or maths science?

[Corey M Seward]

IceStorm <***@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
[snip]

Post by IceStorm

Post by Chucky & Janica

Post by Grahame Anon

Post by Chucky & Janica
Uh, physics? I guess I mean chemistry. Whatever.

Chemistry is just very physics on a very small scale :)

and when the scale gets even smaller, they go back to calling it physics :) all
nice fun, ain't it ;)

Post by Chucky & Janica
Oooh! Let the faction-wars begin!

is science maths or maths science?

Think of it this way:
At its most basic level, history is really sociology.
At its most basic level, sociology is really psychology.
At its most basic level, psychology is really biology.
At its most basic level, biology is really chemistry.
At its most basic level, chemistry is really physics.
At its most basic level, physics is really math.
At its most basic level, math is imaginary.

Okay, it kinda breaks down when moving from physics to math, but I was
mightily impressed with myself when I first thought of it back in the hazy
days of my undergrad.

[Mr Daryl Keehn]

Post by Corey M Seward
[snip]

Post by IceStorm

Post by Chucky & Janica

Post by Grahame Anon

Post by Chucky & Janica
Uh, physics? I guess I mean chemistry. Whatever.

Chemistry is just very physics on a very small scale :)

and when the scale gets even smaller, they go back to calling it physics :) all
nice fun, ain't it ;)

Post by Chucky & Janica
Oooh! Let the faction-wars begin!

is science maths or maths science?

At its most basic level, history is really sociology.
At its most basic level, sociology is really psychology.
At its most basic level, psychology is really biology.

your list breaks down here, because psychology is NOT biology (well IMNSHO it
isn't)

Post by Corey M Seward
At its most basic level, biology is really chemistry.
At its most basic level, chemistry is really physics.
At its most basic level, physics is really math.
At its most basic level, math is imaginary.

no, except for that one minor exception partway through, you are doing well
(though you forgot philosophy and religion)

At its most basic level, math is a figment of the human imagination
Therefore, the basis of all the above is a continual drive by human beings to
understand the world :p
Therefore, there should be one subject called philosophy: our current
understanding of the universe (and religion should get thrown out the window)

Post by Corey M Seward
Okay, it kinda breaks down when moving from physics to math, but I was
mightily impressed with myself when I first thought of it back in the hazy
days of my undergrad.
--
----------------->cutting here will ruin your monitor<-----------------
Corey Seward aa467 AT chebucto DOT ns DOT ca
<a href="http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~aa467">http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~aa467</a> I abuse spammers.
My theory is that a woman should not have a blast radius. -Mike Hoye

[Chucky & Janica]

Once upon a time - for example, 12 Dec 2004 12:57:38 GMT - there was
this guy, or something, called "Mr Daryl Keehn"

Post by Mr Daryl Keehn

Post by Corey M Seward
At its most basic level, psychology is really biology.

your list breaks down here, because psychology is NOT biology (well IMNSHO it
isn't)

People act the way they do, at the most basic level, due to biological
imperatives, because they're animals and that's what animals do. Eat.
Fuck. Sleep. Kill.

Well, not so much kill. But that's what psychology is. The study of
the various ways we try to justify our animal drives. Sorry about your
NSHO.







C&J

[Quinn]

Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, 12 Dec 2004 12:57:38 GMT - there was
this guy, or something, called "Mr Daryl Keehn"

Post by Mr Daryl Keehn

Post by Corey M Seward
At its most basic level, psychology is really biology.

your list breaks down here, because psychology is NOT biology (well IMNSHO it
isn't)

People act the way they do, at the most basic level, due to biological
imperatives, because they're animals and that's what animals do. Eat.
Fuck. Sleep. Kill.

Or perhaps: Kill. Fuck. Eat. Sleep.


*licks chops*

Nap time.

-Q-

[Davian]

Post by Quinn
Or perhaps: Kill. Fuck. Eat. Sleep.

YKYBRTM RASFWR-J...when you immediately parse the above line as "Kill, fuck,
eat sheep."

Post by Quinn
*licks chops*
Nap time.

/shudder.

[Chucky & Janica]

Once upon a time - for example, Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:55:08 GMT - there
was this guy, or something, called "Davian"

Post by Davian

Post by Quinn
Or perhaps: Kill. Fuck. Eat. Sleep.

YKYBRTM RASFWR-J...when you immediately parse the above line as "Kill, fuck,
eat sheep."

*snicker*

Mutton better than a bit of sheep.








C&J

[IceStorm]

Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:55:08 GMT - there
was this guy, or something, called "Davian"

Post by Davian

Post by Quinn
Or perhaps: Kill. Fuck. Eat. Sleep.

YKYBRTM RASFWR-J...when you immediately parse the above line as "Kill, fuck,
eat sheep."

*snicker*
Mutton better than a bit of sheep.

mutton = sheep meat :p

[Chucky & Janica]

Once upon a time - for example, 15 Dec 2004 16:59:57 GMT - there was
this guy, or something, called "IceStorm"

Post by IceStorm

Post by Chucky & Janica

Post by Davian
YKYBRTM RASFWR-J...when you immediately parse the above line as "Kill, fuck,
eat sheep."

*snicker*
Mutton better than a bit of sheep.

mutton = sheep meat :p

In my post, it was also a pun on the word "nothing".








C&J

[IceStorm]

Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, 12 Dec 2004 12:57:38 GMT - there was
this guy, or something, called "Mr Daryl Keehn"

Post by Mr Daryl Keehn

Post by Corey M Seward
At its most basic level, psychology is really biology.

your list breaks down here, because psychology is NOT biology (well IMNSHO it
isn't)

People act the way they do, at the most basic level, due to biological
imperatives, because they're animals and that's what animals do. Eat.
Fuck. Sleep. Kill.
Well, not so much kill. But that's what psychology is. The study of
the various ways we try to justify our animal drives. Sorry about your
NSHO.

You ever gone fishing just because you are bored? I am talking figuratively,
here :p

[Chucky & Janica]

Once upon a time - for example, 14 Dec 2004 13:45:58 GMT - there was
this guy, or something, called "IceStorm"

Post by IceStorm

Post by Chucky & Janica

Post by Mr Daryl Keehn
your list breaks down here, because psychology is NOT biology (well IMNSHO it
isn't)

People act the way they do, at the most basic level, due to biological
imperatives, because they're animals and that's what animals do. Eat.
Fuck. Sleep. Kill.
Well, not so much kill. But that's what psychology is. The study of
the various ways we try to justify our animal drives. Sorry about your
NSHO.

You ever gone fishing just because you are bored?

No. I've come *back* from fishing because I'm bored...

Post by IceStorm
I am talking figuratively,
here :p

But at its most basic level, psychology is all about biological
imperatives.







C&J

[IceStorm]

Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, 14 Dec 2004 13:45:58 GMT - there was
this guy, or something, called "IceStorm"

Post by IceStorm

Post by Chucky & Janica

Post by Mr Daryl Keehn
your list breaks down here, because psychology is NOT biology (well IMNSHO it
isn't)

People act the way they do, at the most basic level, due to biological
imperatives, because they're animals and that's what animals do. Eat.
Fuck. Sleep. Kill.
Well, not so much kill. But that's what psychology is. The study of
the various ways we try to justify our animal drives. Sorry about your
NSHO.

You ever gone fishing just because you are bored?

No. I've come *back* from fishing because I'm bored...

Post by IceStorm
I am talking figuratively,
here :p

But at its most basic level, psychology is all about biological
imperatives.

I know that, I took psychology courses last year as part of my degree. I was
just fishing for reasons anyone would actually think that psychology did not
have a significant biological component.

[Chucky & Janica]

Once upon a time - for example, 15 Dec 2004 17:02:39 GMT - there was
this guy, or something, called "IceStorm"

Post by IceStorm

Post by Chucky & Janica
But at its most basic level, psychology is all about biological
imperatives.

I know that, I took psychology courses last year as part of my degree. I was
just fishing for reasons anyone would actually think that psychology did not
have a significant biological component.

Ah. The ever-popular "devil's advocate" position.

*grin*

I've got one. Chess. Unless of course the ability to outmaneuver one's
opponent will somehow earn you women and food, I fail to see what it
has to do with biology. Overall human urge to win?










C&J

[Ilya the Recusant]

In a not so bright galaxy nowhere near intelligent space, Chucky &

Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, 15 Dec 2004 17:02:39 GMT - there was
this guy, or something, called "IceStorm"

Post by IceStorm

Post by Chucky & Janica
But at its most basic level, psychology is all about biological
imperatives.

I know that, I took psychology courses last year as part of my degree. I was
just fishing for reasons anyone would actually think that psychology did not
have a significant biological component.

Ah. The ever-popular "devil's advocate" position.
*grin*
I've got one. Chess. Unless of course the ability to outmaneuver one's
opponent will somehow earn you women and food, I fail to see what it
has to do with biology. Overall human urge to win?

To smash the robots.

Post by Chucky & Janica
C&J

Ilya the Recusant
-----------------
"Asshole" has a special place in my childhood, the point at which I
first learned that typical Americans were assholes.
- C&J

[Corey M Seward]

Post by Mr Daryl Keehn

Post by Corey M Seward
[snip]

Post by IceStorm
is science maths or maths science?

At its most basic level, history is really sociology.
At its most basic level, sociology is really psychology.
At its most basic level, psychology is really biology.

your list breaks down here, because psychology is NOT biology (well IMNSHO it
isn't)

How would you be able to think at all without all of the biological
processes that go on inside your brain?

[Jasper Janssen]

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:50:12 +0200, Chucky & Janica

Post by Chucky & Janica
Speaking of physics, has anybody theorised the molecular structure of
cuendillar yet?

Porcelain with an embedded forcefield generator. Possibly nanotech
forcefield generators in the many-plural sense.

Jasper

[Chucky & Janica]

Once upon a time - for example, Wed, 15 Dec 2004 01:02:33 GMT - there
was this guy, or something, called Jasper Janssen

Post by Jasper Janssen

Post by Chucky & Janica
Speaking of physics, has anybody theorised the molecular structure of
cuendillar yet?

Porcelain with an embedded forcefield generator. Possibly nanotech
forcefield generators in the many-plural sense.

*snigger*

A generator that converts energy directed towards it into a new source
of structural integrity wossname, so it gets stronger whenever
something tries to break it.

Next question. A bit of cuendillar gets stuck in a closing gateway.
What happens?








C&J

[Auwerda1]

Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, Wed, 15 Dec 2004 01:02:33 GMT - there
was this guy, or something, called Jasper Janssen

Post by Jasper Janssen

Post by Chucky & Janica
Speaking of physics, has anybody theorised the molecular structure of
cuendillar yet?

Porcelain with an embedded forcefield generator. Possibly nanotech
forcefield generators in the many-plural sense.

*snigger*
A generator that converts energy directed towards it into a new source
of structural integrity wossname, so it gets stronger whenever
something tries to break it.
Next question. A bit of cuendillar gets stuck in a closing gateway.
What happens?
C&J

I think the last time we had this conversation someone said that RJ said it
would get pushed out of the way. Which brought up the question "what if it
was a mile long piece exactly centered in the gateway?" But I say what if
you bend an Iron loop around a gateway edge and get an AS to change it to
Cuendillar, then what happens?

Auwerda

[Jacob Sewell]

Yea, on Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:07:56 -0600, the mighty one, whom men call
"Auwerda1" <***@hotmail.com> thus spake:

<snip "What happens to cuendillar in a closing gateway?">

Post by Auwerda1
I think the last time we had this conversation someone said that RJ said it
would get pushed out of the way. Which brought up the question "what if it
was a mile long piece exactly centered in the gateway?" But I say what if
you bend an Iron loop around a gateway edge and get an AS to change it to
Cuendillar, then what happens?

How do you do that? You can't traverse the gateway's edge radially,
because gateways are one-way.

[Auwerda1]

Post by Jacob Sewell
Yea, on Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:07:56 -0600, the mighty one, whom men call
<snip "What happens to cuendillar in a closing gateway?">

Post by Auwerda1
I think the last time we had this conversation someone said that RJ said it
would get pushed out of the way. Which brought up the question "what if it
was a mile long piece exactly centered in the gateway?" But I say what if
you bend an Iron loop around a gateway edge and get an AS to change it to
Cuendillar, then what happens?

How do you do that? You can't traverse the gateway's edge radially,
because gateways are one-way.

You open two gateways one right in front of the other, or jut make the first
gateway to two inches in front of you. Just because they can jump halfway
around the world doesn't mean they have to.

Auwerda

Post by Jacob Sewell
--
Jacob Sewell

[Jacob Sewell]

Yea, on Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:22:35 -0600, the mighty one, whom men call

Post by Auwerda1

Post by Jacob Sewell
Yea, on Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:07:56 -0600, the mighty one, whom men call
<snip "What happens to cuendillar in a closing gateway?">

Post by Auwerda1
I think the last time we had this conversation someone said that RJ said it
would get pushed out of the way. Which brought up the question "what if it
was a mile long piece exactly centered in the gateway?" But I say what if
you bend an Iron loop around a gateway edge and get an AS to change it to
Cuendillar, then what happens?

How do you do that? You can't traverse the gateway's edge radially,
because gateways are one-way.

You open two gateways one right in front of the other, or jut make the first
gateway to two inches in front of you. Just because they can jump halfway
around the world doesn't mean they have to.

Okay, yeah. I really should have thought of that.

To answer your question, I think that's where vacuoles come from. :)

[Chucky & Janica]

Once upon a time - for example, Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:07:56 -0600 -
there was this guy, or something, called "Auwerda1"

Post by Auwerda1

Post by Chucky & Janica
Next question. A bit of cuendillar gets stuck in a closing gateway.
What happens?

I think the last time we had this conversation someone said that RJ said it
would get pushed out of the way.

I heard he said it caused everything within a one-mile radius to turn
into cheese.

Post by Auwerda1
Which brought up the question "what if it
was a mile long piece exactly centered in the gateway?" But I say what if
you bend an Iron loop around a gateway edge and get an AS to change it to
Cuendillar, then what happens?

Both good questions. Another could be "what if it's a little statue of
a person, and the gateway closes on the neck so there's no room for
the head or body to pop out in the gap?"








C&J

[IceStorm]

Post by Chucky & Janica

Post by Jasper Janssen

Post by Chucky & Janica
If it was infinitely thin, surely an opening gateway would be

heralded

Post by Jasper Janssen

Post by Chucky & Janica
by a number of nuclear fission explosions.

More like a nice lightshow of ionized air and loose electrons

rejoining,

Post by Jasper Janssen
and some ozone of course, mostly. I'm not entirely sure what the
likelihood would be of the nucleus of an air atom being in the way of

the

Post by Jasper Janssen
gateway plane at any given time, but I suspect it's fairly low. Even

then,

Post by Jasper Janssen
you'd get nucleuses that were severed in half, which could some

really

Post by Jasper Janssen
weird things but exploding isn't really one of them. Hell, an

antiproton

Post by Jasper Janssen
doesn't explode, even.
Jasper

Something to do with critical mass and the density and stability of the
surrounding atoms I believe. Have to be able to create an ongoing chain
reaction. But the whole idea of magic suggests some deviation from the
currently accepted rules of physics.

That is one thing I find interesting about other-world books. Take out whatver
magic-system the author has instigated and the world has the exact same rules of
physics as whatever was currently accepted at the time of writing. With
exception would be Pratchett, with his discworld sitting on the backs of four
elephants standing on the shell of a giant turtle who is swimming through space.
Can't think of any exceptions atm (at the moment).
Yes it has to do with the critical mass of the fissile material (usually refined
plutonium or uranium if I remember correctly from high school physics).

[Jacob Sewell]

Yea, on 10 Dec 2004 15:28:49 GMT, the mighty one, whom men call
"IceStorm" <***@student.uq.edu.au> thus spake:

<snip discussion of why gateways wouldn't cause Armageddon.>

Post by IceStorm
That is one thing I find interesting about other-world books. Take out whatver
magic-system the author has instigated and the world has the exact same rules of
physics as whatever was currently accepted at the time of writing. With
exception would be Pratchett, with his discworld sitting on the backs of four
elephants standing on the shell of a giant turtle who is swimming through space.
Can't think of any exceptions atm (at the moment).

Well, any changes to physical laws are probably going to be attributed
to the magic system anyway. Sci-Fi (the non-inclusive of Fantasy
variety) has pretty firmly staked its claim to altered physical laws.
If you tried to do both at the same time... Crazy.

Oh, as for exceptions -- the Death Gate Cycle springs to mind. The
seperate worlds in that series didn't work in any kind of cosmology
with which we're familiar.

And anyway, I would imagine that some of the authors in question
approach it the same way I approach a new RPG setting, to wit: Don't
change anything you don't have to, because some wiseass will come
along and point out the unintended consequences of what you changed.

Post by IceStorm
Yes it has to do with the critical mass of the fissile material (usually refined
plutonium or uranium if I remember correctly from high school physics).

Yay explosions.

[David Israel]

Post by IceStorm

Post by Chucky & Janica

Post by Jasper Janssen

Post by Chucky & Janica
If it was infinitely thin, surely an opening gateway would be

heralded

Post by Jasper Janssen

Post by Chucky & Janica
by a number of nuclear fission explosions.

More like a nice lightshow of ionized air and loose electrons

rejoining,

Post by Jasper Janssen
and some ozone of course, mostly. I'm not entirely sure what the
likelihood would be of the nucleus of an air atom being in the way of

the

Post by Jasper Janssen
gateway plane at any given time, but I suspect it's fairly low. Even

then,

Post by Jasper Janssen
you'd get nucleuses that were severed in half, which could some

really

Post by Jasper Janssen
weird things but exploding isn't really one of them. Hell, an

antiproton

Post by Jasper Janssen
doesn't explode, even.
Jasper

Something to do with critical mass and the density and stability of the
surrounding atoms I believe. Have to be able to create an ongoing chain
reaction. But the whole idea of magic suggests some deviation from the
currently accepted rules of physics.

That is one thing I find interesting about other-world books. Take out whatver
magic-system the author has instigated and the world has the exact same rules of
physics as whatever was currently accepted at the time of writing. With
exception would be Pratchett, with his discworld sitting on the backs of four
elephants standing on the shell of a giant turtle who is swimming through space.
Can't think of any exceptions atm (at the moment).
Yes it has to do with the critical mass of the fissile material (usually refined
plutonium or uranium if I remember correctly from high school physics).

But Pratchet has an issue in one book that could take the discussion
down a similar path. In 'Reaper Man', Death is gearing up to meet a
competitor. He's sharpening a new scythe, and gets is so sharp that the
only thing he can sharpen it with even more - is light.
Now - that could be discussed to Death the same way the sharpness of
gateway edges can.

[Jeffton Bopeton]

Post by David Israel
But Pratchet has an issue in one book that could take the

discussion

Post by David Israel
down a similar path. In 'Reaper Man', Death is gearing up to meet a
competitor. He's sharpening a new scythe, and gets is so sharp that the
only thing he can sharpen it with even more - is light.
Now - that could be discussed to Death the same way the sharpness of
gateway edges can.
--
David Israel

Too bad about that scythe, too. All that effort...

JB3

[Jeff Choate]

Post by Auwerda1
I was thinking about gateways, and did a little googling, and it seems that
it is accepted that an open gateway can still cut things. That is, if you
stumbled into the edge while you were walking through, you could lose your
arm or head or cut yourself in half. Am I correct in thinking this?
All those injuries assumed you were in the gateway and hit the edge, but
what would happen if you walked into the edge from the outside? Gateways are
described as being a vertical line from the side, so if you didn't see it
and walked through it would you be dead?

I figure if you walk at it from an oblique angle and half of you goes
in, you're in pretty sorry shape. Half of you in Tar Valon, half of
you in Cairhien...

[IceStorm]

Post by Auwerda1

Post by Auwerda1
I was thinking about gateways, and did a little googling, and it

seems that

Post by Auwerda1
it is accepted that an open gateway can still cut things. That is,

if you

Post by Auwerda1
stumbled into the edge while you were walking through, you could lose

your

Post by Auwerda1
arm or head or cut yourself in half. Am I correct in thinking this?
All those injuries assumed you were in the gateway and hit the edge,

but

Post by Auwerda1
what would happen if you walked into the edge from the outside?

Gateways are

Post by Auwerda1
described as being a vertical line from the side, so if you didn't

see it

Post by Auwerda1
and walked through it would you be dead?

I figure if you walk at it from an oblique angle and half of you goes
in, you're in pretty sorry shape. Half of you in Tar Valon, half of
you in Cairhien...

think that's why they dismount off the horses to go through gateways that aren't
tall enough. i don't think they'd mind too much getting knocking off the horse
if they misjudged the height (in the case of the gateway NOT cutting you, just
stopping you from going through at the wrong angle), but getting cut in two is a
different case entirely ...

[Jeff Choate]

Post by Auwerda1
I was thinking about gateways, and did a little googling, and it seems that
it is accepted that an open gateway can still cut things. That is, if you
stumbled into the edge while you were walking through, you could lose your
arm or head or cut yourself in half. Am I correct in thinking this?
All those injuries assumed you were in the gateway and hit the edge, but
what would happen if you walked into the edge from the outside? Gateways are
described as being a vertical line from the side, so if you didn't see it
and walked through it would you be dead?

I figure if you walk at it from an oblique angle and half of you goes
in, you're in pretty sorry shape. Half of you in Tar Valon, half of
you in Cairhien...

[Jeff Choate]

Post by Auwerda1
I was thinking about gateways, and did a little googling, and it seems that
it is accepted that an open gateway can still cut things. That is, if you
stumbled into the edge while you were walking through, you could lose your
arm or head or cut yourself in half. Am I correct in thinking this?
All those injuries assumed you were in the gateway and hit the edge, but
what would happen if you walked into the edge from the outside? Gateways are
described as being a vertical line from the side, so if you didn't see it
and walked through it would you be dead?

I figure if you walk at it from an oblique angle and half of you goes
in, you're in pretty sorry shape. Half of you in Tar Valon, half of
you in Cairhien...

[Jeff Choate]

Post by Auwerda1
I was thinking about gateways, and did a little googling, and it seems that
it is accepted that an open gateway can still cut things. That is, if you
stumbled into the edge while you were walking through, you could lose your
arm or head or cut yourself in half. Am I correct in thinking this?
All those injuries assumed you were in the gateway and hit the edge, but
what would happen if you walked into the edge from the outside? Gateways are
described as being a vertical line from the side, so if you didn't see it
and walked through it would you be dead?

I figure if you walk at it from an oblique angle and half of you goes
in, you're in pretty sorry shape. Half of you in Tar Valon, half of
you in Cairhien...

[Jeff Choate]

Four duplicate posts? It said it wasn't posting them!
I hate the new Google Groups.

JB3

[Chucky & Janica]

Once upon a time - for example, Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:38:35 -0600 - there

Post by Auwerda1
I was thinking about gateways, and did a little googling, and it seems that
it is accepted that an open gateway can still cut things. That is, if you
stumbled into the edge while you were walking through, you could lose your
arm or head or cut yourself in half. Am I correct in thinking this?

Seems that way. An opening gate cuts, and a closing gate cuts, so
riding through and neglecting to duck would probably leave your head
on the origin-end of the gate. Not a great idea.

Post by Auwerda1
All those injuries assumed you were in the gateway and hit the edge, but
what would happen if you walked into the edge from the outside?

You'd probably get cut in half.

Post by Auwerda1
Gateways are
described as being a vertical line from the side, so if you didn't see it
and walked through it would you be dead?

I'd say so.

Post by Auwerda1
Which makes me wonder what happens if you walk around a gateway? Is it still
there on the other side? Can you walk through it from the other side?

Wasn't there some mention of this in the books? Or am I thinking of
the wrong side of a waygate?








C&J

[IceStorm]

Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:38:35 -0600 - there

Post by Auwerda1
I was thinking about gateways, and did a little googling, and it seems that
it is accepted that an open gateway can still cut things. That is, if you
stumbled into the edge while you were walking through, you could lose your
arm or head or cut yourself in half. Am I correct in thinking this?

Seems that way. An opening gate cuts, and a closing gate cuts, so
riding through and neglecting to duck would probably leave your head
on the origin-end of the gate. Not a great idea.

Post by Auwerda1
All those injuries assumed you were in the gateway and hit the edge, but
what would happen if you walked into the edge from the outside?

You'd probably get cut in half.

Post by Auwerda1
Gateways are
described as being a vertical line from the side, so if you didn't see it
and walked through it would you be dead?

I'd say so.

Post by Auwerda1
Which makes me wonder what happens if you walk around a gateway? Is it still
there on the other side? Can you walk through it from the other side?

Wasn't there some mention of this in the books? Or am I thinking of
the wrong side of a waygate?

i think only waygates were discussed and all that is said is "that it is not a
good idea to test it out". don't currently have my books to double-check that
though.

Post by Chucky & Janica
C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.
- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org

[Jacob Sewell]

On 8 Dec 2004 14:14:29 GMT, "IceStorm" <***@student.uq.edu.au>
wrote:

<snip "What does a gateway look like from the other side? Has this
been discussed, or am I thinking of Waygates?">

Post by IceStorm
i think only waygates were discussed and all that is said is "that it is not a
good idea to test it out". don't currently have my books to double-check that
though.

You're right about Waygates, but gateways are also mentioned. I can't
quote it for you at the moment, as I'm going to be late for work, but
you want to look at Path of Daggers, just before Avi gates the party
to the Farm. It's an Elayne PoV, I believe.

--
Jacob Sewell
jasewell gmail com
"If it weren't for the French, we'd all be speaking English now."
--Jacob Sewell

[David Israel]

Post by Jacob Sewell
<snip "What does a gateway look like from the other side? Has this
been discussed, or am I thinking of Waygates?">

Post by IceStorm
i think only waygates were discussed and all that is said is "that it is not a
good idea to test it out". don't currently have my books to double-check that
though.

You're right about Waygates, but gateways are also mentioned. I can't
quote it for you at the moment, as I'm going to be late for work, but
you want to look at Path of Daggers, just before Avi gates the party
to the Farm. It's an Elayne PoV, I believe.
--
Jacob Sewell
jasewell gmail com
"If it weren't for the French, we'd all be speaking English now."
--Jacob Sewell

I thought waygates are two-way. Just the smoky-glass look is similar.
Waygates are physical, and constant. The OP may have been used to
create them, but you have a key (the leaf), and you can come and go.
That is how Loial, Perrin & co., and lots of trollocs get to and from
the 2 rivers.

[Auwerda1]

Post by David Israel

Post by Jacob Sewell
<snip "What does a gateway look like from the other side? Has this
been discussed, or am I thinking of Waygates?">

Post by IceStorm
i think only waygates were discussed and all that is said is "that it is not a
good idea to test it out". don't currently have my books to double-check that
though.

You're right about Waygates, but gateways are also mentioned. I can't
quote it for you at the moment, as I'm going to be late for work, but
you want to look at Path of Daggers, just before Avi gates the party
to the Farm. It's an Elayne PoV, I believe.
--
Jacob Sewell
jasewell gmail com
"If it weren't for the French, we'd all be speaking English now."
--Jacob Sewell

I thought waygates are two-way. Just the smoky-glass look is similar.
Waygates are physical, and constant. The OP may have been used to create
them, but you have a key (the leaf), and you can come and go. That is how
Loial, Perrin & co., and lots of trollocs get to and from the 2 rivers.

Waygates are two-way in the sense that you can walk into them and out of
them, however, the discussion lies in entering a waygate or gateway from the
back. In the EotW Loial tells Rand he could walk behind a waygate and not
see a thing, but he would not reccomend it because the books say he would
probably get lost and never come back.

So waygates are not two-way in the sense that you can enter them from either
side.

Post by David Israel
David Israel

Auwerda

[Jacob Sewell]

Yea, on Sat, 11 Dec 2004 13:10:04 +0200, the mighty one, whom men call

Post by David Israel

Post by Jacob Sewell
<snip "What does a gateway look like from the other side? Has this
been discussed, or am I thinking of Waygates?">

Post by IceStorm
i think only waygates were discussed and all that is said is "that it is not a
good idea to test it out". don't currently have my books to double-check that
though.

You're right about Waygates, but gateways are also mentioned. I can't
quote it for you at the moment, as I'm going to be late for work, but
you want to look at Path of Daggers, just before Avi gates the party
to the Farm. It's an Elayne PoV, I believe.

<snip>

Post by David Israel
I thought waygates are two-way. Just the smoky-glass look is similar.
Waygates are physical, and constant. The OP may have been used to
create them, but you have a key (the leaf), and you can come and go.
That is how Loial, Perrin & co., and lots of trollocs get to and from
the 2 rivers.

You can walk through a Waygate and then walk back through, so in that
sense they are two directional, but the question here is what do you
see when you walk _around_ it.

The Eye of the World, Chapter 44, The Dark Along the Ways, p 561:

Disturbingly the darkness around the window into the cellar gave a
sense of depth, as though the opening stood alone with nothing around
or behind it but the dark. He said as much with a shaky laugh, but
Loial took him seriously.
"You could walk all the way around it, and you would not see a thing
from the other side. I would not advise it, though. The books aren't
very clear about what lies behind the Waygates. I think you could
become lost there, and never find your way out."

As for what's on the backside of a Waygate in the real world, I seem
to recall that it's just stone, but I don't have a reference.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Auwerda1
I was thinking about gateways, and did a little googling, and it seems that
it is accepted that an open gateway can still cut things. That is, if you
stumbled into the edge while you were walking through, you could lose your
arm or head or cut yourself in half. Am I correct in thinking this?
All those injuries assumed you were in the gateway and hit the edge, but
what would happen if you walked into the edge from the outside? Gateways are
described as being a vertical line from the side, so if you didn't see it
and walked through it would you be dead?
Which makes me wonder what happens if you walk around a gateway? Is it still
there on the other side? Can you walk through it from the other side?

Can a gateway edge cut cuendillar?