The Sea Folk and the 13th Depository

[c***@hotmail.com]

Ok, this isn't a spoiler - although it does reference an entry in the
Glossary of KoD, so spoiler space anyway.

...spoilers...

...spoilers...

...spoilers...
...spoilers.
...spoilers...
...spoilers...
...spoilers...


...spoilers...
...spoilers...
...spoilers...

...spoilers...
...spoilers...

...spoilers...
...spoilers...

Ok. Something I've been wondering off and on about since Alviarin
enountered the three Sea Folk sisters in CoT, which upon reading the
Glossary of KoD I remembered to ask about.

Has anyone discussed the rather unlikely coincidence of all 3 Sea Folk
Aes Sedai choosing the same Ajah *and* being the librarians who keep
the Tower's secret records?

Especially when the two Sea Folk sisters who died between New Spring
and TEotW were *also* Browns? Any bets on them also being librarians of
the secret records?

I don't know why it would matter about Sea Folk knowing the secret
records of Aes Sedai. But consider a couple of things:

1. All known Sea Folk sisters were Browns. Curious.
2. The Sea Folk have been fooling the Aes Sedai for thousands of years
by pretending women who can channel are very rare. In reality, they're
all over the place, and have honored positions. The few Sea Folk sent
to Tar Valon are sacrifices, of no great power, designed to placate Aes
Sedai.
3. For that deception to work, it means *every* Atha'an sister *in
history* in some way places loyalty to the Sea Folk over loyalty to the
Tower. That's the only way to explain them not speaking up about the
deception - especially given that the whole WTower knows its numbers
are dwindling and can see no solution. Not *one* Sea Folk sister has
*ever* said, "hey, there are a whole bunch of Windfinders available.
Some of 'em are as strong as the five strongest Aes Sedai. Some of 'em
are as strong as any Aes Sedai in a thousand years. Some of 'em are
Forsaken class. What, you mean we forgot to mention that at any point
in the last three thousand years?"
4. We have other evidence that SF sisters place loyalty to their kin
over loyalty to the Tower. In the Great Hunt ch.4, the Sea Folk sisters
say the Coramoor is coming but refuse to say anything else. If Aes
Sedai knew the Coramoor was the Dragon Reborn, they'd be interested in
those prophecies (surely they would?), but the SF refuse to reveal
those things to their "sisters".
5. By terms of the bargain between Sea Folk and Nyn/Elayne, SF sisters
have the right to give up the shawl and return to their people.
Plainly, those "sacrificed" to the Tower are not forgotten, and they
still feel a connection.

Noting all of that, go back to the 13th Depository. The secret records
of the white Tower, records so secret that even their existence is a
secret. No one knows about them except the Amyrlin, the Keeper, and the
Hall. And, currently, the 3 Sea Folk sisters who keep those records,
who have been given the right (though they don't know it yet) to return
to their people, and who have been shown to be less than completely
loyal to the Tower, in a very circumspect and sneaky way.

Now, the glossary to KoD has an entry that's never appeared before. An
entry which is interesting b/c there's no reason in KoD, seemingly, to
need a definition of this word. The entry (with emendations in [], is
as follows:

"Depository: A divison of the Tower Library. There are twelve publicly
know[n] Depositories[....] A Thirteenth Depository, known only to some
Aes Sedai, contains secret documents, records and histories which may
be accessed only by the Amyrlin Seat, the Keeper of the Chronicles and
the Sitters in the Hall of the Tower. And, of course, by that handful
of librarians who maintain the depository."

*Very* interesting. Why do we need an entry for Depository? Only one
answer makes sense. As with other glossary entries in other books, this
is foreshadowing. And the important line is the last one. A seemingly
off-hand, throw-away line, which is the way RJ, like an Aes Sedai,
hides something in plain sight. Only the top governing officials of the
Tower can see these records - "oh yeah, and those 3 SF sisters of
questionable loyalty and unknown agenda who've been granted the right
to quit at any time, so that we've no authority over them while they
know all the deep dark secrets we've hidden from the world for the last
3000 years."

What there could be in there, and why it would matter in any power
struggle between SF and Aes Sedai, I don't know, but it may simply be
additional leverage for the Windfinders to keep from being subsumed
into the Tower. Though with the Bargain that was made, I don't see them
having any problems. Nevertheless, this is going to be a story element
somehow. And I predict that all three SF sisters will, in fact, take
advantage of the Bargain, give up the shawl, unbind themselves (in a
sanctioned way) using the Oath Rod, and return to their people.

Talaan, otoh, will be Aes Sedai. Perhaps the first SF sister in history
to really be AS of her own will, and to give her loyalty to the Tower
rather than to the SF conspiracy.

-chaplainchris

[Holly Tjaden]

***quote***
Not *one* Sea Folk sister has
*ever* said, "hey, there are a whole bunch of Windfinders available.
Some of 'em are as strong as the five strongest Aes Sedai. Some of 'em
are as strong as any Aes Sedai in a thousand years. Some of 'em are
Forsaken class. What, you mean we forgot to mention that at any point
in the last three thousand years?"

---------------------------------------

Of course, you overlooked the possibility that they really DID forget
to mention it. ;-)

[Dave Rothgery]

Post by Holly Tjaden
***quote***
Not *one* Sea Folk sister has
*ever* said, "hey, there are a whole bunch of Windfinders available.
Some of 'em are as strong as the five strongest Aes Sedai. Some of 'em
are as strong as any Aes Sedai in a thousand years. Some of 'em are
Forsaken class. What, you mean we forgot to mention that at any point
in the last three thousand years?"

FWIW, the one that's Forsaken class and the one that's Elayne-class are
teenage girls, quite likely unknown to any Sea Folk AS.

[Peter Reid]

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Ok, this isn't a spoiler - although it does reference an entry in the
Glossary of KoD, so spoiler space anyway.
....spoilers...
....spoilers...
....spoilers...
....spoilers.
....spoilers...
....spoilers...
....spoilers...
....spoilers...
....spoilers...
....spoilers...
....spoilers...
....spoilers...
....spoilers...
....spoilers...
3. For that deception to work, it means *every* Atha'an sister *in
history* in some way places loyalty to the Sea Folk over loyalty to the
Tower. That's the only way to explain them not speaking up about the
deception - especially given that the whole WTower knows its numbers
are dwindling and can see no solution. Not *one* Sea Folk sister has
*ever* said, "hey, there are a whole bunch of Windfinders available.
Some of 'em are as strong as the five strongest Aes Sedai. Some of 'em
are as strong as any Aes Sedai in a thousand years. Some of 'em are
Forsaken class. What, you mean we forgot to mention that at any point
in the last three thousand years?"

Unless the women are bundled off to Tar Valon before they even know that
WindFinders are channellers. A very real possibility, given the age the
WT accepts novices, and given the SF's desire not to let the WT know
about their WF's.

Post by c***@hotmail.com
"Depository: A divison of the Tower Library. There are twelve publicly
know[n] Depositories[....] A Thirteenth Depository, known only to some
Aes Sedai, contains secret documents, records and histories which may
be accessed only by the Amyrlin Seat, the Keeper of the Chronicles and
the Sitters in the Hall of the Tower. And, of course, by that handful
of librarians who maintain the depository."
*Very* interesting. Why do we need an entry for Depository? Only one
answer makes sense. As with other glossary entries in other books, this
is foreshadowing.

Or maybe it's because we've just heard them mentioned for the first time
several times in KoD by Egwene. To me that's also an answer that makes
sense.

[David Chapman]

Post by Peter Reid

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Not *one* Sea Folk sister has
*ever* said, "hey, there are a whole bunch of Windfinders available.
Some of 'em are as strong as the five strongest Aes Sedai. Some of 'em
are as strong as any Aes Sedai in a thousand years. Some of 'em are
Forsaken class. What, you mean we forgot to mention that at any point
in the last three thousand years?"

Unless the women are bundled off to Tar Valon before they even know that
WindFinders are channellers. A very real possibility, given the age the
WT accepts novices, and given the SF's desire not to let the WT know
about their WF's.

A completely non-existent possibility, given that the Sea Folk live on boats
pretty much from the day they are born and, even if there are residential
ships which have no Windfinder, women usually spark at an age when they
would have begun their training as crew aboard a ship that does. There is
no way in hell that in 3,000 years no Atha'an Miere sister has ever known
that WIndfinders can channel, and I'd say that all or nearly all of them
have known.

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by David Chapman

Post by Peter Reid

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Not *one* Sea Folk sister has
*ever* said, "hey, there are a whole bunch of Windfinders available.
Some of 'em are as strong as the five strongest Aes Sedai. Some of 'em
are as strong as any Aes Sedai in a thousand years. Some of 'em are
Forsaken class. What, you mean we forgot to mention that at any point
in the last three thousand years?"

Unless the women are bundled off to Tar Valon before they even know that
WindFinders are channellers. A very real possibility, given the age the
WT accepts novices, and given the SF's desire not to let the WT know
about their WF's.

A completely non-existent possibility, given that the Sea Folk live on boats
pretty much from the day they are born and, even if there are residential
ships which have no Windfinder, women usually spark at an age when they
would have begun their training as crew aboard a ship that does. There is
no way in hell that in 3,000 years no Atha'an Miere sister has ever known
that WIndfinders can channel, and I'd say that all or nearly all of them
have known.

Exactly, and very well put.

In other news...

Holly Tjaden quoted me saying 'Not *one* Sea Folk sister has
*ever* said, "hey, there are a whole bunch of Windfinders available.
Some of 'em are as strong as the five strongest Aes Sedai. Some of 'em
are as strong as any Aes Sedai in a thousand years. Some of 'em are
Forsaken class. What, you mean we forgot to mention that at any point
in the last three thousand years?" '

She then wrote: "Of course, you overlooked the possibility that they
really DID forget
to mention it. ;-) "

My response: well, not really - since I mentioned the possibility it's
not really accurate to say I overlooked it. I did dismiss it, however,
and very sarcastically. That's because I consider it a ridiculous
possibility, for reasons previously stated. Basically, that one of the
WT's primary concerns has been their declining numbers, and it's been a
topic of conversation for a long time for them (mentioned in NS, tEOtW,
etc.).

Dave Rothgery wrote, and I quote: "FWIW, the one that's Forsaken class
and the one that's Elayne-class are
teenage girls, quite likely unknown to any Sea Folk AS."

Yeah, that's true, and I did consider it, and forgive my hyperbole
cluttering up the point. There's also the point that the WF Elayne met
first, on the trip to Tanchico, said she'd never met anyone as strong
as Elayne. (Of course that was back when the supergirls really were
supergirls, before
Sharina/Alivia/Cadsuane/Tamela/Viendre/Someryn/Talaan/Metarra etc. were
on the scene and possibly before RJ conceived of them.) But consider:
the Sea Folk find every woman with the spark and nearly every girl who
can learn. Sure, the Forsaken class is prolly extremely extremely rare,
and Elayne class prolly very rare as well. But the point is, the SF
*know* they've got lots of channelers out there, of all different
levels of strength, at a time when the Tower is afraid they've bred the
ability out of the population. And I know RJ has said there's truth to
that. But the SF know that the situation's not nearly as bad as the AS
thought. And yeah, the SF sisters were "sacrificed" to the Tower as
camouflage, and were chosen for not being strong, and maybe were kept
from knowing some secrets. But when you take in their odd behavior on
many levels, it seems far more likely that they're an active part of
the SF conspiracy to deceive the AS.

-chaplainchris

[Michael Rost]

Post by c***@hotmail.com
But when you take in their odd behavior on
many levels, it seems far more likely that they're an active part of
the SF conspiracy to deceive the AS.

And certainly helped by the WT's failure to not ask the direct question: Are
there more WF that can channel?

The culture within the WT certainly isn't very forward thinking and any
failure to grow pretty much rests squarely on their shoulders. As an example,
refer to the trepidation of many SAS due to many novices being too old or too
this or that.

[Frank van Schie]

Post by Michael Rost

Post by c***@hotmail.com
But when you take in their odd behavior on
many levels, it seems far more likely that they're an active part of
the SF conspiracy to deceive the AS.

And certainly helped by the WT's failure to not ask the direct question: Are
there more WF that can channel?

"The Atha'an Miere send girls with the spark to Tar Valon" would be the
correct response.

Clarifying questions, despite the fact that every sister uses vague
phrasings like these to avoid answering, are probably prohibited by custom.

[David Chapman]

Post by c***@hotmail.com
But when you take in their odd behavior on
many levels, it seems far more likely that they're an active part of
the SF conspiracy to deceive the AS.

Are there more WF that can channel?

The girls the Sea Folk send to the Tower aren't themselves Windfinders, and
the whole point of always refusing Aes Sedai the gift of passage is so they
don't find out that Windfinders can channel. It is therefore extremely
unlikely that the Tower would ask if any *more* Windfinders can channel, as
they've never seen or heard of a channelling Windfinder.

The tricky question to get around is "Can any of the Windfinders channel?",
but as Frank said, this can be answered with "I'm certain that some of them
could be trained to touch the Source, but we send girls with the spark to
the Tower".

[Eric Schmidt]

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Now, the glossary to KoD has an entry that's never appeared before. An
entry which is interesting b/c there's no reason in KoD, seemingly, to
need a definition of this word. The entry (with emendations in [], is
"Depository: A divison of the Tower Library. There are twelve publicly
know[n] Depositories[....] A Thirteenth Depository, known only to some
Aes Sedai, contains secret documents, records and histories which may
be accessed only by the Amyrlin Seat, the Keeper of the Chronicles and
the Sitters in the Hall of the Tower. And, of course, by that handful
of librarians who maintain the depository."

This isn't new in KOD. My copy of COT contains the same entry (with
minor differences).

[ioanna]

Post by Eric Schmidt

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Now, the glossary to KoD has an entry that's never appeared before. An
entry which is interesting b/c there's no reason in KoD, seemingly, to
need a definition of this word. The entry (with emendations in [], is
"Depository: A divison of the Tower Library. There are twelve publicly
know[n] Depositories[....] A Thirteenth Depository, known only to some
Aes Sedai, contains secret documents, records and histories which may
be accessed only by the Amyrlin Seat, the Keeper of the Chronicles and
the Sitters in the Hall of the Tower. And, of course, by that handful
of librarians who maintain the depository."

This isn't new in KOD. My copy of COT contains the same entry (with
minor differences).

Just a minor detail here. I had been looking through the glossaries and
the entry for Depository indeed appears only in the last 2 books (CoT
and KoD), and as many other entries it is almost the same but not
quite. But some differences in definitions between books is just
slightly different wording with the same meaning, but in other cases
the meaning also is slightly different. (eg like 'finetuning' them as
many aspects/things in Randland get more fleshed out/described in more
detail/ or even changed somewhat, as the series progresses).

For "Depository" the difference is just one word, (as far as I can see)
but it does make a difference (in meaning):

in CoT:

[...A Thirteenth Depository, known only to Aes Sedai, contains secret
documents, records and histories... ]

in KoD:

[...A Thirteenth Depository, known only to *some* Aes Sedai, contains
secret documents, records and histories... ]

emphasis on 'some' is mine.

(One more difference is 'the handful'/'that handful', but this is one
of the differences that don't make any difference)

So upto CoT only AS (but all AS) know the existence of the 13th
depository. (But only Amyrlin, Keeper etc have access to it).
Presumambly other people (not AS) know the existence of the other 12
Depositories, but the existence of the 13th is known only to AS.

Then in KoD, even its existence is known only to some AS (not all).
(Again the same people have access to it).
This ties up with what Egwene says to Bennae in KoD. Bennae didn't know
of its existence. (With hindsight I feel the KoD Depository definition
was changed (just added 'some') to better tie up with the plot in KoD,
Egwene's plan while in the Tower that is.) And in Egwene discussion
with Bennae, we are told that the same 'some' AS who know of its
existence are the same people who have access to it (Amyrlin, Keeper,
Sitters, librarians).

Also, I feel the KoD definition makes better sense. If some people are
not allowed to know the contents of that depository, it is better they
don't know of its existence either. For psychological reasons. So that
they don't know that some knowledge is withheld from them. Else they
might feel 'slighted' in a way. Whereas what you don't know (in this
case that something is kept secret from you) can't hurt you.

Having said that, I don't think this detail affects the
Seafolk-Depository discussion/ theory since that is based on who has
actually access to it (and the librarians are one of the few who do)
and that hasn't changed throughout the books. But it seems that the
'existence' itself was not a secret for all AS except the 'some', for
books 1-10.

As to glossary entries forshadowing things, this particular one in KoD
forshadows that the detail that only 'some' AS know of its existence,
may play a role/may be needed in the current or next book(s). And
indeed it is used in KoD itself, where Egwene 'reveals' its existence
to Bennae. If its existence was known to all AS, Egwene would still
have the advantage of revealing some of its actual contents (Because
Bennae still would not have access to its contents anyway). But it is
even better for Egwene to also drop the bomb "THERE IS a 13th
Depository" of which Bennae had no idea.

[ioanna]

Just adding some spoiler space. My apologies to everyone, I only
noticed after I posted my reply that the message I was replying to
didn't have any spoiler space, and my message includes some spoilers
(thankfully they are bit further down, but still..)
.
.
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Post by ioanna

Post by Eric Schmidt

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Now, the glossary to KoD has an entry that's never appeared before. An
entry which is interesting b/c there's no reason in KoD, seemingly, to
need a definition of this word. The entry (with emendations in [], is
"Depository: A divison of the Tower Library. There are twelve publicly
know[n] Depositories[....] A Thirteenth Depository, known only to some
Aes Sedai, contains secret documents, records and histories which may
be accessed only by the Amyrlin Seat, the Keeper of the Chronicles and
the Sitters in the Hall of the Tower. And, of course, by that handful
of librarians who maintain the depository."

This isn't new in KOD. My copy of COT contains the same entry (with
minor differences).

Just a minor detail here. I had been looking through the glossaries and
the entry for Depository indeed appears only in the last 2 books (CoT
and KoD), and as many other entries it is almost the same but not
quite. But some differences in definitions between books is just
slightly different wording with the same meaning, but in other cases
the meaning also is slightly different. (eg like 'finetuning' them as
many aspects/things in Randland get more fleshed out/described in more
detail/ or even changed somewhat, as the series progresses).
For "Depository" the difference is just one word, (as far as I can see)
[...A Thirteenth Depository, known only to Aes Sedai, contains secret
documents, records and histories... ]
[...A Thirteenth Depository, known only to *some* Aes Sedai, contains
secret documents, records and histories... ]
emphasis on 'some' is mine.
(One more difference is 'the handful'/'that handful', but this is one
of the differences that don't make any difference)
So upto CoT only AS (but all AS) know the existence of the 13th
depository. (But only Amyrlin, Keeper etc have access to it).
Presumambly other people (not AS) know the existence of the other 12
Depositories, but the existence of the 13th is known only to AS.
Then in KoD, even its existence is known only to some AS (not all).
(Again the same people have access to it).
This ties up with what Egwene says to Bennae in KoD. Bennae didn't know
of its existence. (With hindsight I feel the KoD Depository definition
was changed (just added 'some') to better tie up with the plot in KoD,
Egwene's plan while in the Tower that is.) And in Egwene discussion
with Bennae, we are told that the same 'some' AS who know of its
existence are the same people who have access to it (Amyrlin, Keeper,
Sitters, librarians).
Also, I feel the KoD definition makes better sense. If some people are
not allowed to know the contents of that depository, it is better they
don't know of its existence either. For psychological reasons. So that
they don't know that some knowledge is withheld from them. Else they
might feel 'slighted' in a way. Whereas what you don't know (in this
case that something is kept secret from you) can't hurt you.
Having said that, I don't think this detail affects the
Seafolk-Depository discussion/ theory since that is based on who has
actually access to it (and the librarians are one of the few who do)
and that hasn't changed throughout the books. But it seems that the
'existence' itself was not a secret for all AS except the 'some', for
books 1-10.
As to glossary entries forshadowing things, this particular one in KoD
forshadows that the detail that only 'some' AS know of its existence,
may play a role/may be needed in the current or next book(s). And
indeed it is used in KoD itself, where Egwene 'reveals' its existence
to Bennae. If its existence was known to all AS, Egwene would still
have the advantage of revealing some of its actual contents (Because
Bennae still would not have access to its contents anyway). But it is
even better for Egwene to also drop the bomb "THERE IS a 13th
Depository" of which Bennae had no idea.

[Daniel Holm]

Post by ioanna
Just adding some spoiler space. My apologies to everyone, I only
noticed after I posted my reply that the message I was replying to
didn't have any spoiler space, and my message includes some spoilers
(thankfully they are bit further down, but still..)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Post by ioanna

Post by Eric Schmidt

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Now, the glossary to KoD has an entry that's never appeared before. An
entry which is interesting b/c there's no reason in KoD, seemingly, to
need a definition of this word. The entry (with emendations in [], is
"Depository: A divison of the Tower Library. There are twelve publicly
know[n] Depositories[....] A Thirteenth Depository, known only to some
Aes Sedai, contains secret documents, records and histories which may
be accessed only by the Amyrlin Seat, the Keeper of the Chronicles and
the Sitters in the Hall of the Tower. And, of course, by that handful
of librarians who maintain the depository."

This isn't new in KOD. My copy of COT contains the same entry (with
minor differences).

Just a minor detail here. I had been looking through the glossaries and
the entry for Depository indeed appears only in the last 2 books (CoT
and KoD), and as many other entries it is almost the same but not
quite. But some differences in definitions between books is just
slightly different wording with the same meaning, but in other cases
the meaning also is slightly different. (eg like 'finetuning' them as
many aspects/things in Randland get more fleshed out/described in more
detail/ or even changed somewhat, as the series progresses).
For "Depository" the difference is just one word, (as far as I can see)
[...A Thirteenth Depository, known only to Aes Sedai, contains secret
documents, records and histories... ]
[...A Thirteenth Depository, known only to *some* Aes Sedai, contains
secret documents, records and histories... ]
emphasis on 'some' is mine.
(One more difference is 'the handful'/'that handful', but this is one
of the differences that don't make any difference)
So upto CoT only AS (but all AS) know the existence of the 13th
depository. (But only Amyrlin, Keeper etc have access to it).
Presumambly other people (not AS) know the existence of the other 12
Depositories, but the existence of the 13th is known only to AS.
Then in KoD, even its existence is known only to some AS (not all).
(Again the same people have access to it).
This ties up with what Egwene says to Bennae in KoD. Bennae didn't know
of its existence. (With hindsight I feel the KoD Depository definition
was changed (just added 'some') to better tie up with the plot in KoD,
Egwene's plan while in the Tower that is.) And in Egwene discussion
with Bennae, we are told that the same 'some' AS who know of its
existence are the same people who have access to it (Amyrlin, Keeper,
Sitters, librarians).
Also, I feel the KoD definition makes better sense. If some people are
not allowed to know the contents of that depository, it is better they
don't know of its existence either. For psychological reasons. So that
they don't know that some knowledge is withheld from them. Else they
might feel 'slighted' in a way. Whereas what you don't know (in this
case that something is kept secret from you) can't hurt you.
Having said that, I don't think this detail affects the
Seafolk-Depository discussion/ theory since that is based on who has
actually access to it (and the librarians are one of the few who do)
and that hasn't changed throughout the books. But it seems that the
'existence' itself was not a secret for all AS except the 'some', for
books 1-10.
As to glossary entries forshadowing things, this particular one in KoD
forshadows that the detail that only 'some' AS know of its existence,
may play a role/may be needed in the current or next book(s). And
indeed it is used in KoD itself, where Egwene 'reveals' its existence
to Bennae. If its existence was known to all AS, Egwene would still
have the advantage of revealing some of its actual contents (Because
Bennae still would not have access to its contents anyway). But it is
even better for Egwene to also drop the bomb "THERE IS a 13th
Depository" of which Bennae had no idea.

Eh. The COT entry is probably just an error. They happen, y'know.
Siuan, for one, has always said that the secret depositories were known
only to a few Aes Sedai.

You're putting way too much into this.

--Daniel Holm

[NightBaron]

Post by ioanna
Just adding some spoiler space. My apologies to everyone, I only
noticed after I posted my reply that the message I was replying to
didn't have any spoiler space, and my message includes some spoilers
(thankfully they are bit further down, but still..)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Post by ioanna
For "Depository" the difference is just one word, (as far as I can see)
[...A Thirteenth Depository, known only to Aes Sedai, contains secret
documents, records and histories... ]
[...A Thirteenth Depository, known only to *some* Aes Sedai, contains
secret documents, records and histories... ]
emphasis on 'some' is mine.
(One more difference is 'the handful'/'that handful', but this is one
of the differences that don't make any difference)
So upto CoT only AS (but all AS) know the existence of the 13th
depository. (But only Amyrlin, Keeper etc have access to it).
Presumambly other people (not AS) know the existence of the other 12
Depositories, but the existence of the 13th is known only to AS.

The way I interpret "known only to Aes Sedai" is not "known only by all
Aes Sedai", but rather "only Aes Sedai know about it". Therefore, I
see nothing in the wording that suggests that "all" Aes Sedai know
about it, but it does allow for the possibility. The KoD entry removed
that possibility, but does not contradict the CoT entry. It merely
clarifies that while only Aes Sedai know about the 13th Depository, not
all of them do.

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by NightBaron
The way I interpret "known only to Aes Sedai" is not "known only by all
Aes Sedai", but rather "only Aes Sedai know about it". Therefore, I
see nothing in the wording that suggests that "all" Aes Sedai know
about it, but it does allow for the possibility. The KoD entry removed
that possibility, but does not contradict the CoT entry. It merely
clarifies that while only Aes Sedai know about the 13th Depository, not
all of them do.

Yes, but from a foreshadowing POV, that change is potentially
important. It signals the possibility that that the fact that only a
few AS know of the Depository may become important. As others have
pointed out, that's already been a plot point w/Egwene revealing stuff
from the Depository, and maybe that's all RJ intends. But I still find
it suspicious that so few AS know of its bare existence, but all 3 of
the SF sisters do, and have unrestricted access to it, while managing
to keep all SF secrets from the Tower. And I'm still willing to bet
that the 2 *Brown* SF sisters that died after New Spring were
Librarians working in the 13 Depository, too.

Post by NightBaron
Eh. The COT entry is probably just an error. They happen, y'know.

As pointed out, the KoD doesn't correct anything, just clarify and
thereby change the meaning. Logic suggests there was some reason to
make the clarification, and the history of the series indicates that
glossary entries sometimes hint at developments in the series. I'm just
making a guess as to what purpose the clarification serves. The last
line in KoD isn't a scholarly suggestion, it's a deliberate,
mock-casual insertion of "oh yeah, the Librarians know too." Jordan,
like AS, hides things in plain sight, writing about them casually but
planting important info.

Post by NightBaron
Siuan, for one, has always said that the secret depositories were known
only to a few Aes Sedai.

How does that have anything to do with the price of beans in
Guadalahara? The point isn't so much that it's new information in the
Glossary, as that it's deliberately drawing attention to that info. I'd
be less suspicious, for example, if the entry said that the existence
and contents are known only to the Hall and the Librarians who keep the
record. Easy enough, and more natural, to phrase it that way. Throwing
it in at the end makes it look like an afterthought, but I don't
believe it is. See the way Tamra gives instructions on gathering names
for the Bounty in New Spring for a reminder of how this works.

Post by NightBaron
You're putting way too much into this.

Speculating is part of the fun of the group, and the thread was not is
not *based* on a glossary entry. The entry simply reminded me of a
topic I'd been meaning to post for awhile, questioning the secretive
and potentially subversive behavior of the SF Aes Sedai.

YMMV, and RAFO, and all that.

-chaplainchris

[Tim Bruening]

Post by NightBaron

Post by ioanna
Just adding some spoiler space. My apologies to everyone, I only
noticed after I posted my reply that the message I was replying to
didn't have any spoiler space, and my message includes some spoilers
(thankfully they are bit further down, but still..)
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Post by ioanna
For "Depository" the difference is just one word, (as far as I can see)
[...A Thirteenth Depository, known only to Aes Sedai, contains secret
documents, records and histories... ]
[...A Thirteenth Depository, known only to *some* Aes Sedai, contains
secret documents, records and histories... ]
emphasis on 'some' is mine.
(One more difference is 'the handful'/'that handful', but this is one
of the differences that don't make any difference)
So upto CoT only AS (but all AS) know the existence of the 13th
depository. (But only Amyrlin, Keeper etc have access to it).
Presumambly other people (not AS) know the existence of the other 12
Depositories, but the existence of the 13th is known only to AS.

The way I interpret "known only to Aes Sedai" is not "known only by all
Aes Sedai", but rather "only Aes Sedai know about it". Therefore, I
see nothing in the wording that suggests that "all" Aes Sedai know
about it, but it does allow for the possibility. The KoD entry removed
that possibility, but does not contradict the CoT entry. It merely
clarifies that while only Aes Sedai know about the 13th Depository, not
all of them do.

Since the 13th Depository is a deep dark WT secret, how is it that there's an
entry for it in the glossaries at all?