Blast from the Past questions

[Tamyrlin79]

I did a quick skim-through re-read of the last two books before I
started KoD. But, I still had a few questions about some things:

1. When/Where and under what circumstances did Perrin get his useful
little note signed by Suroth? I can't recall that the two ever met.

2. What exactly was the Bargain that the Sea Folk made with Elayne? I
know she gave up some land, but I can't recall the other details that
were referred to near the end of KoD in the chapter with Birgitte and
the Windfinders.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can give some illumination on these
small sticking points for me.

[Ash]

Post by Tamyrlin79
I did a quick skim-through re-read of the last two books before I
1. When/Where and under what circumstances did Perrin get his useful
little note signed by Suroth? I can't recall that the two ever met.

Berelain's men stole it from Masema

[Tony Zbaraschuk]

Post by Tamyrlin79
I did a quick skim-through re-read of the last two books before I
1. When/Where and under what circumstances did Perrin get his useful
little note signed by Suroth? I can't recall that the two ever met.

Stolen from Masema last book. Masema's been in contact with the
Seanchan.

Post by Tamyrlin79
2. What exactly was the Bargain that the Sea Folk made with Elayne? I
know she gave up some land, but I can't recall the other details that
were referred to near the end of KoD in the chapter with Birgitte and
the Windfinders.

Multiple parts (mostly discussed in previous book), but basically
the Sea Folk got Aes Sedai tutors.


Tony Z

[c***@hotmail.com]

[...]

Post by Tony Zbaraschuk

Post by Tamyrlin79
2. What exactly was the Bargain that the Sea Folk made with Elayne? I
know she gave up some land, but I can't recall the other details that
were referred to near the end of KoD in the chapter with Birgitte and
the Windfinders.

Multiple parts (mostly discussed in previous book), but basically
the Sea Folk got Aes Sedai tutors.
Tony Z

[...]

There are multiple bargains between Elayne and the Sea Folk, so it
depends which one you mean. The first bargain was "negotiated" by
Nynaeve and Elayne with Nesta din Reas, Mistress of the Ships. It seems
to have been a very poor, one-sided bargain. Basically, the Sea Folk
would assist in using the Bowl of the Winds to right the world's
weather. In return, Aes Sedai would (as far as we can tell) 1) provide
the Bowl, 2) help use it, 3) respect the separateness of the
Windfinders and not try to make them become Aes Sedai, 4) allow current
Sea Folk sisters to quit the Aes Sedai and return to their people if
they choose, 5) provide tutors. I think the deal was for 20 tutors,
each of whom would serve a year and then be replaced by 20 more. They
would have to teach whatever they were told.

In the second bargain, between Elayne and Zaida, Elayne gave up a mile
of land alongside the river Erinin in exchange for Windfinders who'd
stay in Caemlyn to make gateways to help keep supplies coming in.

There was a bargain in the middle between Nesta and Mat, that the Sea
Folk would flee Ebou Dar and go where Nynaeve and Elayne said to go.

chaplainchris

[David Chapman]

Post by c***@hotmail.com
The first bargain was "negotiated" by
Nynaeve and Elayne with Nesta din Reas, Mistress of the Ships. It seems
to have been a very poor, one-sided bargain. Basically, the Sea Folk
would assist in using the Bowl of the Winds to right the world's
weather. In return, Aes Sedai would (as far as we can tell) 1) provide
the Bowl, 2) help use it, 3) respect the separateness of the
Windfinders and not try to make them become Aes Sedai, 4) allow current
Sea Folk sisters to quit the Aes Sedai and return to their people if
they choose, 5) provide tutors. I think the deal was for 20 tutors,
each of whom would serve a year and then be replaced by 20 more. They
would have to teach whatever they were told.

You missed 6) Windfinders can visit the White Tower as they please, stay as
long as they please and learn what they want. Other than that, good
summary.

[Ash]

Post by David Chapman

Post by c***@hotmail.com
The first bargain was "negotiated" by
Nynaeve and Elayne with Nesta din Reas, Mistress of the Ships. It seems
to have been a very poor, one-sided bargain. Basically, the Sea Folk
would assist in using the Bowl of the Winds to right the world's
weather. In return, Aes Sedai would (as far as we can tell) 1) provide
the Bowl, 2) help use it, 3) respect the separateness of the
Windfinders and not try to make them become Aes Sedai, 4) allow current
Sea Folk sisters to quit the Aes Sedai and return to their people if
they choose, 5) provide tutors. I think the deal was for 20 tutors,
each of whom would serve a year and then be replaced by 20 more. They
would have to teach whatever they were told.

You missed 6) Windfinders can visit the White Tower as they please, stay as
long as they please and learn what they want. Other than that, good
summary.

Though Egwene seemed to think she had a way around that. Not sure what
it is. I don't think there is anything in it to allow the WF to mistreat
the AS, but there is also nothing in it that they can refuse to teach if
they are mistreated

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by David Chapman

Post by c***@hotmail.com
The first bargain was "negotiated" by
Nynaeve and Elayne with Nesta din Reas, Mistress of the Ships. It seems
to have been a very poor, one-sided bargain. Basically, the Sea Folk
would assist in using the Bowl of the Winds to right the world's
weather. In return, Aes Sedai would (as far as we can tell) 1) provide
the Bowl, 2) help use it, 3) respect the separateness of the
Windfinders and not try to make them become Aes Sedai, 4) allow current
Sea Folk sisters to quit the Aes Sedai and return to their people if
they choose, 5) provide tutors. I think the deal was for 20 tutors,
each of whom would serve a year and then be replaced by 20 more. They
would have to teach whatever they were told.

You missed 6) Windfinders can visit the White Tower as they please, stay as
long as they please and learn what they want.

Oh, right. It's been a few years, I guess. Geez, not a good deal at
all. Especially when the starting point for negotiations should have
been "The DO is going to kill us all unless we change the weather.
You're going to help. Now. Oh, and here's a white robe for you to wear,
novice."

Post by David Chapman
Other than that, good
summary.

Thanks! You should also check out my collected twitterings, not just
the witterings.

chaplainchris

[Tamyrlin79]

Post by Tony Zbaraschuk
Multiple parts (mostly discussed in previous book), but basically
the Sea Folk got Aes Sedai tutors

Then how is it that Birgitte is able to command the Windfinders in the
Palace? She did command them to open a gateway to travel. She had to
trick them into participating in the conflict, but getting them to open
the gateway was a different story. So, what gives?

[Antonio Contreras]

Post by Tamyrlin79

Post by Tony Zbaraschuk
Multiple parts (mostly discussed in previous book), but basically
the Sea Folk got Aes Sedai tutors

Then how is it that Birgitte is able to command the Windfinders in the
Palace? She did command them to open a gateway to travel. She had to
trick them into participating in the conflict, but getting them to open
the gateway was a different story. So, what gives?

Part of the last bargain between Elayne and the Sea Folk, the one that
took place in the infamous bath scene was that a number of Windfinders
would stay in Caemlyn to help keeping the city supplied by the use of
gateways. IIRC, they were not to be drawn into conflict, but should
open gateways as commanded.

[Chris Liguori]

Post by Antonio Contreras

Post by Tamyrlin79

Post by Tony Zbaraschuk
Multiple parts (mostly discussed in previous book), but basically
the Sea Folk got Aes Sedai tutors

Then how is it that Birgitte is able to command the Windfinders in the
Palace? She did command them to open a gateway to travel. She had to
trick them into participating in the conflict, but getting them to open
the gateway was a different story. So, what gives?

Part of the last bargain between Elayne and the Sea Folk, the one that
took place in the infamous bath scene was that a number of Windfinders
would stay in Caemlyn to help keeping the city supplied by the use of
gateways. IIRC, they were not to be drawn into conflict, but should
open gateways as commanded.

See, the bath scene actually did have a plot point. So it took up
several chapters of the book, but it set the stage for more Elayne
stupidity in KoD.

Chris

[loial]

Post by Antonio Contreras

Post by Tamyrlin79

Post by Tony Zbaraschuk
Multiple parts (mostly discussed in previous book), but basically
the Sea Folk got Aes Sedai tutors

Then how is it that Birgitte is able to command the Windfinders in the
Palace? She did command them to open a gateway to travel. She had to
trick them into participating in the conflict, but getting them to open
the gateway was a different story. So, what gives?

Part of the last bargain between Elayne and the Sea Folk, the one that
took place in the infamous bath scene was that a number of Windfinders
would stay in Caemlyn to help keeping the city supplied by the use of
gateways. IIRC, they were not to be drawn into conflict, but should
open gateways as commanded.

Also, the WFs couldn't just run around the palace like they owned the
place, telling everyone what to do. They were under Elayne's and
Birgitte's authority.

[Robert Mee]

Post by loial

Post by Antonio Contreras

Post by Tamyrlin79

Post by Tony Zbaraschuk
Multiple parts (mostly discussed in previous book), but basically
the Sea Folk got Aes Sedai tutors

Then how is it that Birgitte is able to command the Windfinders in the
Palace? She did command them to open a gateway to travel. She had to
trick them into participating in the conflict, but getting them to open
the gateway was a different story. So, what gives?

Part of the last bargain between Elayne and the Sea Folk, the one that
took place in the infamous bath scene was that a number of Windfinders
would stay in Caemlyn to help keeping the city supplied by the use of
gateways. IIRC, they were not to be drawn into conflict, but should
open gateways as commanded.

Also, the WFs couldn't just run around the palace like they owned the
place, telling everyone what to do. They were under Elayne's and
Birgitte's authority.

And don't forget that Birgitte emphasized that if Elayne got snatched
and Amyrilla (I think that's her name) took the crown, the deal for the
land would be mostly null and void anyway.... and wouldn't that be a
nice thing to run back and tell Zaida?

Rob (back from his trip and brimming with happy KoD excitement)

[z***@gmail.com]

Post by Antonio Contreras

Post by Tamyrlin79
Then how is it that Birgitte is able to command the Windfinders in the
Palace? She did command them to open a gateway to travel. She had to
trick them into participating in the conflict, but getting them to open
the gateway was a different story. So, what gives?

Part of the last bargain between Elayne and the Sea Folk, the one that
took place in the infamous bath scene was that a number of Windfinders
would stay in Caemlyn to help keeping the city supplied by the use of
gateways. IIRC, they were not to be drawn into conflict, but should
open gateways as commanded.

Birgitte commands them to open gateways and they do so. The
extracurricular lightning bolt, shields, and restraints were all based
on the other part of the bargain. Granted, Birgitte is playing partly
off guilt at watching soldiers disappear, but that square mile of Andor
is pretty big deal for the Sea Folk. Obviously they would have build
river boats to travel the Erinen, but the implications for trade are
staggering. Especially, for the one who personally made (or lost) the
bargain.

Zack G

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Tamyrlin79

Post by Tony Zbaraschuk
Multiple parts (mostly discussed in previous book), but basically
the Sea Folk got Aes Sedai tutors

Then how is it that Birgitte is able to command the Windfinders in the
Palace? She did command them to open a gateway to travel. She had to
trick them into participating in the conflict, but getting them to open
the gateway was a different story. So, what gives?

She pointed out that if Elayne failed to secure power due to being held
captive by the Black Ajah, she would not be able to fulfill her side of the
bargain, rendering the bargain moot.