Discussion:
The Last Battle
(too old to reply)
Legolas
2008-06-13 15:16:02 UTC
Permalink
Nice to see some activity again here these last few weeks. I'd like to
throw in a topic myself :)

Lots of people assume a big battle, "the" final unique and only battle,
will occur in Shayol Ghul, up in the wastelands. Why's that? Who's
going to act first, the DO or Rand ?

It seems to me that having the battle over there would mean that all
those armies from all over randland would have assembled and travelled
all that way without the DO or his goons noticing, and taking them by
surprise. How likely is that? It's the DO who's been striking most of
the time, with Rand merely defending himself, who do you think will
strike first in the final battle?
Who has more information about the other? The godlike DO and his
foresaken, or Rand and his friends?

If the argument is that the bad guys would prefer to fight there because
the DO's presence is strong there and he can help them, isn't it likely
that a couple of extra locks holding the DO will break and allow him to
manifest himself somewhere other that SG where the big battle would take
place?

And knowing they'll all unite against him (the DO), wouldn't he attempt
to strike them all separately before they all get together in one place?

--
Legolas
Scott Lurndal
2008-06-13 20:36:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Legolas
Nice to see some activity again here these last few weeks. I'd like to
throw in a topic myself :)
Lots of people assume a big battle, "the" final unique and only battle,
will occur in Shayol Ghul, up in the wastelands. Why's that? Who's
going to act first, the DO or Rand ?
My assumption, particularly after KOD, was that the final battle will
occur in the Two Rivers, and LTT will die at the spring in emonds' field.
Note that both Perin's group and Mat's army are both headed straight for
the two rivers.

scott
Brinner
2008-06-14 06:52:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Legolas
Nice to see some activity again here these last few weeks. I'd like to
throw in a topic myself :)
Lots of people assume a big battle, "the" final unique and only battle,
will occur in Shayol Ghul, up in the wastelands.  Why's that?  Who's
going to act first, the DO or Rand ?
My assumption, particularly after KOD, was that the final battle will
occur in the Two Rivers, and LTT will die at the spring in emonds' field.
Note that both Perin's group and Mat's army are both headed straight for
the two rivers.
I think you might be half right, I think there will be a large battle
in the Two Rivers, where the DO decides to strike first to draw Rand
away from Shayol Gul. I think the actual Last Battle will have very
little to do with large armies but will be between Rand using the
Choden Kal and the DO at SG.

Rand needs to stitch up that bore somehow.

Brinner
Casey
2008-06-14 14:28:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brinner
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Legolas
Nice to see some activity again here these last few weeks. I'd like to
throw in a topic myself :)
Lots of people assume a big battle, "the" final unique and only battle,
will occur in Shayol Ghul, up in the wastelands. Why's that? Who's
going to act first, the DO or Rand ?
My assumption, particularly after KOD, was that the final battle will
occur in the Two Rivers, and LTT will die at the spring in emonds' field.
Note that both Perin's group and Mat's army are both headed straight for
the two rivers.
I think you might be half right, I think there will be a large battle
in the Two Rivers, where the DO decides to strike first to draw Rand
away from Shayol Gul. I think the actual Last Battle will have very
little to do with large armies but will be between Rand using the
Choden Kal and the DO at SG.
Rand needs to stitch up that bore somehow.
Brinner
I' d like to add that I think Rand will intentionally break the last
couple of seals when he's ready. I just re-read the prologue to tEotW
and it seems clear that LTT felt the seals were a mistake, and Rand's
goal will most likely be to shut the DO out of the pattern entirely.

There's some strange writing in KOD with the focus shifting between
the three ta'veren without changing chapters, even tho they are
nowhere near each other. Was this RJ hinting that they will meet
somehow or were they influencing one another without realizing it?
Anyone have any insight?
Matthew Kuhl
2008-06-16 02:34:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Casey
Post by Brinner
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Legolas
Nice to see some activity again here these last few weeks. I'd like to
throw in a topic myself :)
Lots of people assume a big battle, "the" final unique and only battle,
will occur in Shayol Ghul, up in the wastelands. Why's that? Who's
going to act first, the DO or Rand ?
My assumption, particularly after KOD, was that the final battle will
occur in the Two Rivers, and LTT will die at the spring in emonds' field.
Note that both Perin's group and Mat's army are both headed straight for
the two rivers.
I think you might be half right, I think there will be a large battle
in the Two Rivers, where the DO decides to strike first to draw Rand
away from Shayol Gul. I think the actual Last Battle will have very
little to do with large armies but will be between Rand using the
Choden Kal and the DO at SG.
Rand needs to stitch up that bore somehow.
Brinner
I' d like to add that I think Rand will intentionally break the last
couple of seals when he's ready. I just re-read the prologue to tEotW
and it seems clear that LTT felt the seals were a mistake, and Rand's
goal will most likely be to shut the DO out of the pattern entirely.
There's some strange writing in KOD with the focus shifting between
the three ta'veren without changing chapters, even tho they are
nowhere near each other. Was this RJ hinting that they will meet
somehow or were they influencing one another without realizing it?
Anyone have any insight?
The best I could come up with is the colorful things that Perrin and
Mat get when they think of Rand. That does indicate some sort of
linkage, but the nature of the link is up for speculation.

Matthew
Jon W. Woolf
2008-06-27 19:30:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Kuhl
Post by Casey
Post by Brinner
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Legolas
Nice to see some activity again here these last few weeks. I'd like to
throw in a topic myself :)
Lots of people assume a big battle, "the" final unique and only battle,
will occur in Shayol Ghul, up in the wastelands.  Why's that?  Who's
going to act first, the DO or Rand ?
My assumption, particularly after KOD, was that the final battle will
occur in the Two Rivers, and LTT will die at the spring in emonds' field.
Note that both Perin's group and Mat's army are both headed straight for
the two rivers.
I think you might be half right, I think there will be a large battle
in the Two Rivers, where the DO decides to strike first to draw Rand
away from Shayol Gul. I think the actual Last Battle will have very
little to do with large armies but will be between Rand using the
Choden Kal and the DO at SG.
Rand needs to stitch up that bore somehow.
Brinner
I' d like to add that I think Rand will intentionally break the last
couple of seals when he's ready.  I just re-read the prologue to tEotW
and it seems clear that LTT felt the seals were a mistake, and Rand's
goal will most likely be to shut the DO out of the pattern entirely.
There's some strange writing in KOD with the focus shifting between
the three ta'veren without changing chapters, even tho they are
nowhere near each other.  Was this RJ hinting that they will meet
somehow or were they influencing one another without realizing it?
Anyone have any insight?
The best I could come up with is the colorful things that Perrin and
Mat get when they think of Rand.  That does indicate some sort of
linkage, but the nature of the link is up for speculation.
Matthew
With reality itself weakening, I think the barriers between the
guys'... souls, spirits, minds, whatever you want to call it, are also
weakening. It's like Matt's memories from the doorway, or the bonding
of Rand between the three women, they are now inseparable. I think
that something like that will occur between Matt, Perrin and Rand.
They won't be one person, but they'll have a understanding with each
other that will allow them to defeat the DO.
Christer Jacobsson
2008-07-15 22:52:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brinner
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Legolas
Nice to see some activity again here these last few weeks. I'd like to
throw in a topic myself :)
Lots of people assume a big battle, "the" final unique and only battle,
will occur in Shayol Ghul, up in the wastelands.  Why's that?  Who's
going to act first, the DO or Rand ?
My assumption, particularly after KOD, was that the final battle will
occur in the Two Rivers, and LTT will die at the spring in emonds' field.
Note that both Perin's group and Mat's army are both headed straight for
the two rivers.
I think you might be half right, I think there will be a large battle
in the Two Rivers, where the DO decides to strike first to draw Rand
away from Shayol Gul. I think the actual Last Battle will have very
little to do with large armies but will be between Rand using the
Choden Kal and the DO at SG.
Rand needs to stitch up that bore somehow.
It got to be somewhat more permanent than merely stitching up the Bore.

What is the status of the Choedan Kal? After the Cleansing act one of
the access ter'angreals was half-meltet, but is it out of commission or
will it still work as it did in the Clenasing? If the half-melted one is
out of commission, maybe there exist another of its kind that is unhurt,
if I remember the books it was stated somewhere that several access
ter'angreals was created along with Choedan Kal.

So let's assume that Choedan Kal can be used in the sealing of the Bore,
then there are at least two methods by which the Bore could be sealed.
The first method would be to use Choedan Kal to access so much saidar
and saidin that the whole Shayol Ghul mountain could be compacted down
through its gravitational radius - 10**-15 meters - thus turning it into
a black hole with its accopanying event horizon. Then put an electric
charge on the hole and hurl it away into space with a speed >> Earth and
Solar escape velocity. The second method would be to use Choedan Kal to
(1) cut loose the Shayol Ghul mountain from Randland and (2) rotate it
ninety degrees away from Randland's space-time continuum which would
cause Randland to be inaccessible to the DO as there will be no way back
to Randland's spacetime continuum. Remenber Flatland? If you have a
plane figure in Flatland and rotates it ninety degrees away from
Flatland, i.e. into the third dimension, it will cease to exist in
Flatland and be inaccessible to Flatland's inhabitants: the same goes
for the rotated plane Flatland figure, it can't connect up to or
influence Flatland as it will exist in the third dimension which it
cannot bridge.


Cul8er alligator!
gaea - feminist & chunkawakan
--
/GAIA (Insulin User - 12th Anniversary :-) Ex-wife deceased :-(
Team OS/2 e-mail: ***@gaea.se (Primary)
Team eCs e-mail: ***@yahoo.com (Alternate)
Team DRW - Dare Refuse Windows
Chunkawakan
Chucky & Janica
2008-07-26 18:20:42 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:52:38 GMT - there
was this guy, or something, called "Christer Jacobsson"
Post by Christer Jacobsson
So let's assume that Choedan Kal can be used in the sealing of the Bore,
then there are at least two methods by which the Bore could be sealed.
The first method would be to use Choedan Kal to access so much saidar
and saidin that the whole Shayol Ghul mountain could be compacted down
through its gravitational radius - 10**-15 meters - thus turning it into
a black hole with its accopanying event horizon.
Wow.

I missed this group.




C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
PatOConnell
2008-07-26 23:15:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:52:38 GMT - there
was this guy, or something, called "Christer Jacobsson"
Post by Christer Jacobsson
So let's assume that Choedan Kal can be used in the sealing of the Bore,
then there are at least two methods by which the Bore could be sealed.
The first method would be to use Choedan Kal to access so much saidar
and saidin that the whole Shayol Ghul mountain could be compacted down
through its gravitational radius - 10**-15 meters - thus turning it into
a black hole with its accopanying event horizon.
Wow.
I missed this group.
Time to crack those Modern Physics books again.

Pat
Casey
2008-08-03 21:33:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christer Jacobsson
So let's assume that Choedan Kal can be used in the sealing of the Bore,
then there are at least two methods by which the Bore could be sealed.
The first method would be to use Choedan Kal to access so much saidar
and saidin that the whole Shayol Ghul mountain could be compacted down
through its gravitational radius - 10**-15 meters - thus turning it into
a black hole with its accopanying event horizon. Then put an electric
charge on the hole and hurl it away into space with a speed >> Earth and
Solar escape velocity. The second method would be to use Choedan Kal to
(1) cut loose the Shayol Ghul mountain from Randland and (2) rotate it
ninety degrees away from Randland's space-time continuum which would
cause Randland to be inaccessible to the DO as there will be no way back
to Randland's spacetime continuum. Remenber Flatland? If you have a
plane figure in Flatland and rotates it ninety degrees away from
Flatland, i.e. into the third dimension, it will cease to exist in
Flatland and be inaccessible to Flatland's inhabitants: the same goes
for the rotated plane Flatland figure, it can't connect up to or
influence Flatland as it will exist in the third dimension which it
cannot bridge.
I somehow doubt that, but the basic problem is that SG isn't
physically the same as the bore. The bore is within SG, but they are
not one and the same. I think that destroying SG would leave the bore
intact.
Tim Bruening
2010-03-29 01:00:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brinner
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Legolas
Nice to see some activity again here these last few weeks. I'd like to
throw in a topic myself :)
Lots of people assume a big battle, "the" final unique and only battle,
will occur in Shayol Ghul, up in the wastelands. Why's that? Who's
going to act first, the DO or Rand ?
My assumption, particularly after KOD, was that the final battle will
occur in the Two Rivers, and LTT will die at the spring in emonds' field.
Note that both Perin's group and Mat's army are both headed straight for
the two rivers.
I think you might be half right, I think there will be a large battle
in the Two Rivers, where the DO decides to strike first to draw Rand
away from Shayol Gul. I think the actual Last Battle will have very
little to do with large armies but will be between Rand using the
Choden Kal and the DO at SG.
Rand needs to stitch up that bore somehow.
Use Callandor as a giant needle?

Tim Bruening
2010-03-29 01:00:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Legolas
Nice to see some activity again here these last few weeks. I'd like to
throw in a topic myself :)
Lots of people assume a big battle, "the" final unique and only battle,
will occur in Shayol Ghul, up in the wastelands. Why's that? Who's
going to act first, the DO or Rand ?
My assumption, particularly after KOD, was that the final battle will
occur in the Two Rivers, and LTT will die at the spring in emonds' field.
Note that both Perin's group and Mat's army are both headed straight for
the two rivers.
How then would Rand bleed on the rocks of Shayol Ghul to free men from the
Shadow?
Tim Bruening
2010-03-29 00:58:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Legolas
Nice to see some activity again here these last few weeks. I'd like to
throw in a topic myself :)
Lots of people assume a big battle, "the" final unique and only battle,
will occur in Shayol Ghul, up in the wastelands. Why's that? Who's
going to act first, the DO or Rand ?
It seems to me that having the battle over there would mean that all
those armies from all over randland would have assembled and travelled
all that way without the DO or his goons noticing, and taking them by
surprise. How likely is that? It's the DO who's been striking most of
the time, with Rand merely defending himself, who do you think will
strike first in the final battle?
Who has more information about the other? The godlike DO and his
foresaken, or Rand and his friends?
If the argument is that the bad guys would prefer to fight there because
the DO's presence is strong there and he can help them, isn't it likely
that a couple of extra locks holding the DO will break and allow him to
manifest himself somewhere other that SG where the big battle would take
place?
And knowing they'll all unite against him (the DO), wouldn't he attempt
to strike them all separately before they all get together in one place?
Before the Last Battle, Rand will have to eliminate as many potential
defenders of Shayol Ghul as possible, such as Mazrim Taim and his pet
students, and the Black Ajah.

During the Last Battle, I'm imagining Rand riding on a to'raken blasting the
Trollocs down below.
Loading...