The Seals

[StoneLaughter]

What's breaking the seals?

Is it:

1. The True Power?
2. The Taint?
3. Something we haven't been told about yet?

Only, see, Cuendillar is all but indestructible, and chanelling at
(non-angreal/ter-angreal) cuendillar just makes it stronger.

What gives?

[Richard Dewsbery]

Post by StoneLaughter
What's breaking the seals?
1. The True Power?
2. The Taint?
3. Something we haven't been told about yet?

Wild stab-in-the-dark guess here, but I reckon RAFO :D

Richard

[Rifty]

Post by StoneLaughter
What's breaking the seals?
1. The True Power?
2. The Taint?
3. Something we haven't been told about yet?
Only, see, Cuendillar is all but indestructible, and chanelling at
(non-angreal/ter-angreal) cuendillar just makes it stronger.
What gives?

Well, I think I see an answer... let's do some logical thinking.

Point the first: Channeling at Cuendillar makes it stronger, and more
(?) indestructible.
Point the Second: Cuendillar was made by the One Power to be
indestructible.

Forgiving for a moment that if something is indestructible, it can't
really be made stronger, let's run with these two points.

If channeling the One Power at Cuendillar makes it stronger, logically,
what might make it weaker?

Drawing the power out, of course. Which is an interesting thought.

-Rifty

[Brian Roux]

Post by Rifty
Point the first: Channeling at Cuendillar makes it stronger, and more
(?) indestructible.
Point the Second: Cuendillar was made by the One Power to be
indestructible.

This assumes that Cuendillar is indestructible in practice as well as in
theory. The various twists in who was/is wrong/right about various
applications of the one power makes me think of a Weird Al song,
"Everything you know is wrong." Of course it is supposedly immune to
balefire (was that ever shown to be true?) and all that.

Post by Rifty
Forgiving for a moment that if something is indestructible, it can't
really be made stronger, let's run with these two points.
If channeling the One Power at Cuendillar makes it stronger, logically,
what might make it weaker?

My pet theory was always it being corroded by the Dark One's taint. We
know the TP has a corrosive/corruptive effect after long use, so perhaps
3,000 years of Dark One love have warped the Cuendillar into something
that is not Cuendillar and as fragile as Cuendillar is strong. Sort of
like leaving iron out and it rusting. Iron is fairly strong. Tempering
it makes it stronger. But rust will still eat away at it.

~ Brian

[Palpie]

Post by Brian Roux

Post by Rifty
Point the first: Channeling at Cuendillar makes it stronger, and more
(?) indestructible.
Point the Second: Cuendillar was made by the One Power to be
indestructible.

This assumes that Cuendillar is indestructible in practice as well as in
theory. The various twists in who was/is wrong/right about various
applications of the one power makes me think of a Weird Al song,
"Everything you know is wrong." Of course it is supposedly immune to
balefire (was that ever shown to be true?) and all that.

When one of the BA sisters used the balefire rod in Tanchio it didn't
destroy the cuendillar items.

[Chucky & Janica]

Once upon a time - for example, 14 Jul 2005 06:37:09 -0700 - there was

Post by Rifty
Forgiving for a moment that if something is indestructible, it can't
really be made stronger,

I actually think it's quite clever. They shouldn't really use the term
"indestructible", but it's a practical thing. Anything that tries to
break cuendillar makes it stronger. Logically, this makes it
indestructible, because anything that would normally break it instead
makes it stronger.

It's not indestructible in a purely technical sense, of course,
because cuendillar items have been broken in the past, and probably
will continue to be broken.

True, only the Seals are falling apart, and they're under special
circumstances, but still. Not indestructible ... just impossible to
break under normal circumstances.




C&J

[NightBaron]

Post by StoneLaughter
What's breaking the seals?
1. The True Power?
2. The Taint?
3. Something we haven't been told about yet?
Only, see, Cuendillar is all but indestructible, and chanelling at
(non-angreal/ter-angreal) cuendillar just makes it stronger.
What gives?

Let me advance a little theory. Let's say that the Dark One's prison
acts like the shields you put on a channeler. We know from FoH and LoC
that you can break through a shield, but that it takes time and it can
be painful. We saw Rand work through his shield by "attacking" little
knots in his head, soft when the weave was held by the Aes Sedai, and
hard when the weave was tied off. Rand was finally able to break
through the hard knots, and crush the soft knots when the shield was
weakened enough, which resulted in the stilling of the Aes Sedai
holding the shield.

So if we compare this to the Dark One's prison and the Seals, let's say
the Dark One has been working all these years attacking these "knots"
(of which the Seals are the focal point). By weakening the knots and
breaking through them, he weakens and breaks through the cuendillar
seals, who are directly linked to these "knots". So even though
external force can't break cuendillar, in this case the cuendillar is
made weaker/broken because it is directly linked to the knots on the
"shield" around the Bore.

Just a theory, a bit out there, but it came to me just now.

[Palpie]

Post by NightBaron

Post by StoneLaughter
What's breaking the seals?
1. The True Power?
2. The Taint?
3. Something we haven't been told about yet?
Only, see, Cuendillar is all but indestructible, and chanelling at
(non-angreal/ter-angreal) cuendillar just makes it stronger.
What gives?

Let me advance a little theory. Let's say that the Dark One's prison
acts like the shields you put on a channeler. We know from FoH and LoC
that you can break through a shield, but that it takes time and it can
be painful. We saw Rand work through his shield by "attacking" little
knots in his head, soft when the weave was held by the Aes Sedai, and
hard when the weave was tied off. Rand was finally able to break
through the hard knots, and crush the soft knots when the shield was
weakened enough, which resulted in the stilling of the Aes Sedai
holding the shield.
So if we compare this to the Dark One's prison and the Seals, let's say
the Dark One has been working all these years attacking these "knots"
(of which the Seals are the focal point). By weakening the knots and
breaking through them, he weakens and breaks through the cuendillar
seals, who are directly linked to these "knots". So even though
external force can't break cuendillar, in this case the cuendillar is
made weaker/broken because it is directly linked to the knots on the
"shield" around the Bore.
Just a theory, a bit out there, but it came to me just now.

Interesting theory, but Rand seems to think he can physically break the
seals now.

[NightBaron]

Post by Palpie

Post by NightBaron

Post by StoneLaughter
What's breaking the seals?
1. The True Power?
2. The Taint?
3. Something we haven't been told about yet?
Only, see, Cuendillar is all but indestructible, and chanelling at
(non-angreal/ter-angreal) cuendillar just makes it stronger.
What gives?

Let me advance a little theory. Let's say that the Dark One's prison
acts like the shields you put on a channeler. We know from FoH and LoC
that you can break through a shield, but that it takes time and it can
be painful. We saw Rand work through his shield by "attacking" little
knots in his head, soft when the weave was held by the Aes Sedai, and
hard when the weave was tied off. Rand was finally able to break
through the hard knots, and crush the soft knots when the shield was
weakened enough, which resulted in the stilling of the Aes Sedai
holding the shield.
So if we compare this to the Dark One's prison and the Seals, let's say
the Dark One has been working all these years attacking these "knots"
(of which the Seals are the focal point). By weakening the knots and
breaking through them, he weakens and breaks through the cuendillar
seals, who are directly linked to these "knots". So even though
external force can't break cuendillar, in this case the cuendillar is
made weaker/broken because it is directly linked to the knots on the
"shield" around the Bore.
Just a theory, a bit out there, but it came to me just now.

Interesting theory, but Rand seems to think he can physically break the
seals now.

Yes, because the Seals have been weakened, not by an external force,
but by their link to the "knots" on the shield, which themselves are
being weakened by the Dark One. I'm basically assuming that what
happens to the "knot" happens to the Seal, which is its focal point.

[StoneLaughter]

On 14 Jul 2005 08:52:09 -0700, there was a crash of thunder as

<snip long discussion about the seals being the focus for "knots" in the theorised "shield" like structure of the DO's prison.>

I like this theory - I like it a lot... I'm surprised I haven't seen
this in QotW though?

[j***@gmail.com]

Its never been submitted.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by NightBaron

Post by StoneLaughter
What's breaking the seals?
1. The True Power?
2. The Taint?
3. Something we haven't been told about yet?
Only, see, Cuendillar is all but indestructible, and chanelling at
(non-angreal/ter-angreal) cuendillar just makes it stronger.
What gives?

How does one measure the strength of cuendillar, since its supposed to be
indestructible?

Post by NightBaron
Let me advance a little theory. Let's say that the Dark One's prison
acts like the shields you put on a channeler. We know from FoH and LoC
that you can break through a shield, but that it takes time and it can
be painful. We saw Rand work through his shield by "attacking" little
knots in his head, soft when the weave was held by the Aes Sedai, and
hard when the weave was tied off. Rand was finally able to break
through the hard knots, and crush the soft knots when the shield was
weakened enough, which resulted in the stilling of the Aes Sedai
holding the shield.
So if we compare this to the Dark One's prison and the Seals, let's say
the Dark One has been working all these years attacking these "knots"
(of which the Seals are the focal point). By weakening the knots and
breaking through them, he weakens and breaks through the cuendillar
seals, who are directly linked to these "knots". So even though
external force can't break cuendillar, in this case the cuendillar is
made weaker/broken because it is directly linked to the knots on the
"shield" around the Bore.
Just a theory, a bit out there, but it came to me just now.

It takes 13 AS to guarantee that a person is shielded or stilled or
gentled. Shouldn't there have been 13 Seals on the Bore rather than 7?