Chaos Theory?

[zed246]

just an inchy bitsy bit of spoiler for the KoD prologue is included in
this post. Nothing too specific, just a general thing. However, if you
hadn't read it and don't want to know ANYTHING about it before you do -
then you are here by warned.

Now:
The question I'm asking is quite simple: does the Lord of Chaos rules?
In the sixth book the DO order to the forsaken still alive and found
(we have no evidence that same order was given to Aran'gar, Osan'gar,
Ishy, Moghy and Lanfear except that it is logical) is "LET THE LORD OF
CHAOS RULE".

Now, it seems that the general idea is to creat chaos all over
randland. But in following books there is hardly any that seems to
originate from the forsaken.

The Aiel, Illian, Seafolk, Cairhien and the Border Lands seems to be
uneffected at all.

TAS does have a-lot of problems and chaos as the Ajahs are at each
other's throats so Masa'ana did her job. On the other hand, SAS had
been on a steady way from the start. True, there are the two factions
led by Lelaine and Romanda but that's just normal Aes Sedai politics.
So where's the chaos when the SAS seems to almost overwhelm the TAS,
with or without Eg?

Graendal was making more chaos of the already chaotic Arad-Doman but to
what cause? I mean, the country already was in a civil war and ripped
by Dragon Sworn. Where's the point?

We don't know where Demandred is but it is possible that he's the one
behind the siege on Caemlyn (I'm getting this from the T'A'R scene with
him in LoC in the Throne Room where he says "Let the Lord of Chaos
rule!"). If he is behind that than alright, but isn't that relatively
small, considering that the country itself dosen't seems to be in
chaos?

The only other example of chaos before KoD is Tear - the rebells from
Hadon's Mirk trying to take the Stone, but again - the country doesn't
seems to be in chaos.

So where's all that big chaos they talked about? The only real example
of true chaos in the prologue to KoD.

On the other hand we see the Seanchen bringing order to all of their
lands and Murandy starting to form into a solid country. This is
actualy the reverse of chaos.
It seems that if only the forsaken had left things as they were (minus
the TAS) they might have done better. Rand would have no reason to take
Tear, Andor and Illian and Murandy will not try to form up since they
would not see such a great threat. The nations would hardly know the
Dragon Reborn and would never follow him unless he will make them,
which will make a-lot more chaos than the present situation.
If they had realy wanted to make things worse they should have touch
the Border Lands, kill some Murandy lords and Wave Mistresses and so
on.
Even what Sammael had done to the Shaido didn't do much since many had
just been destroyed and it seems they would have made more chaos as a
big tribe, rather then many seperate septs.

Have the forsaken all failed?

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by zed246
just an inchy bitsy bit of spoiler for the KoD prologue is included in
this post. Nothing too specific, just a general thing. However, if you
hadn't read it and don't want to know ANYTHING about it before you do -
then you are here by warned.
The question I'm asking is quite simple: does the Lord of Chaos rules?
In the sixth book the DO order to the forsaken still alive and found
(we have no evidence that same order was given to Aran'gar, Osan'gar,
Ishy, Moghy and Lanfear except that it is logical) is "LET THE LORD OF
CHAOS RULE".
Now, it seems that the general idea is to creat chaos all over
randland. But in following books there is hardly any that seems to
originate from the forsaken.
snip
Have the forsaken all failed?

I had always assumed that the Lord of Chaos was Rand. I haven't read
the KoD prologue or New Spring so I might be missing some context, but
with everything else he's done, it seems like an appropriate title.
Breaking the Aiel, redrawing the borders of Randland with a Spirograph,
breaking the AS's 3,000-year monopoly on the One Power... well, you get
the idea.

Why the DO would have given that order was unclear. It's also hard to
believe that Demandred would have taken it so calmly. But then, we
don't know what followed that line in the DO's orders to Demandred. And
this is more or less what the Forsaken had been doing - even Sammael
only fought Rand when Rand started it, and none of the attacks on him
could be traced to them directly, IIRC (it's been a while).

Besides, you could argue that it's been an effective strategy. The
forces of the light are divided, fighting each other constantly, all
the main characters (Rand, Perrin, Mat, Elayne, Egwene) have been
chasing after renegades and schismatics from within their own ranks
rather than going for anyone who's important to the Shadow - if the DO
did order them to "Let the Lord of Chaos [Rand] rule," it seems to be
working for him so far.

[Rajiv Mote]

Not that this answers your questions, but I always thought the Dark
One's demand for more chaos in the world related directly to the way
the Pattern is described:

1. The Pattern spins out ta'veren as a self-correcting tool
2. The Dark One exists outside of the Pattern
3. The Dark One can be sensed through a "thinness" in the Pattern

I take this to mean that, when the Pattern is woven the way the Wheel
wills, it's a "solid" piece that safely excludes the Dark One. The
Bore created a literal puncture in the Pattern (which was inelegantly
patched), but chaos -- that is, deviation from the will of the Wheel,
creates more such flaws. The more flawed the pattern, the more gaps
the Dark One can reach through.

So for the Dark One to gain access to the Pattern, he needs to either
thwart the actions of the Wheel's correcting mechanism (the ta'veren),
or he needs to bend the ta'veren to his own will.

The Bore and the Seals present another problem: can the Pattern ever be
truly whole while there's a patch on its weaving? Herid Fel seemed to
think not. He thought that the Pattern needed to be restored to its
flawless state before the Age of Legends could come again. That's why
Rand will probably need to smash the Seals and clear away the patch --
and hold the Dark One at bay until the Pattern can reweave itself
properly.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Rajiv Mote
Not that this answers your questions, but I always thought the Dark
One's demand for more chaos in the world related directly to the way
1. The Pattern spins out ta'veren as a self-correcting tool
2. The Dark One exists outside of the Pattern
3. The Dark One can be sensed through a "thinness" in the Pattern
I take this to mean that, when the Pattern is woven the way the Wheel
wills, it's a "solid" piece that safely excludes the Dark One. The
Bore created a literal puncture in the Pattern (which was inelegantly
patched), but chaos -- that is, deviation from the will of the Wheel,
creates more such flaws. The more flawed the pattern, the more gaps
the Dark One can reach through.
So for the Dark One to gain access to the Pattern, he needs to either
thwart the actions of the Wheel's correcting mechanism (the ta'veren),
or he needs to bend the ta'veren to his own will.
The Bore and the Seals present another problem: can the Pattern ever be
truly whole while there's a patch on its weaving? Herid Fel seemed to
think not. He thought that the Pattern needed to be restored to its
flawless state before the Age of Legends could come again. That's why
Rand will probably need to smash the Seals and clear away the patch --
and hold the Dark One at bay until the Pattern can reweave itself
properly.

How long would it take for the Pattern to reweave itself?

[Tim Bruening]

Post by zed246
just an inchy bitsy bit of spoiler for the KoD prologue is included in
this post. Nothing too specific, just a general thing. However, if you
hadn't read it and don't want to know ANYTHING about it before you do -
then you are here by warned.
The question I'm asking is quite simple: does the Lord of Chaos rules?
In the sixth book the DO order to the forsaken still alive and found
(we have no evidence that same order was given to Aran'gar, Osan'gar,
Ishy, Moghy and Lanfear except that it is logical) is "LET THE LORD OF
CHAOS RULE".
Now, it seems that the general idea is to creat chaos all over
randland. But in following books there is hardly any that seems to
originate from the forsaken.
The Aiel, Illian, Seafolk, Cairhien and the Border Lands seems to be
uneffected at all.
TAS does have a-lot of problems and chaos as the Ajahs are at each
other's throats so Masa'ana did her job. On the other hand, SAS had
been on a steady way from the start. True, there are the two factions
led by Lelaine and Romanda but that's just normal Aes Sedai politics.
So where's the chaos when the SAS seems to almost overwhelm the TAS,
with or without Eg?
Graendal was making more chaos of the already chaotic Arad-Doman but to
what cause? I mean, the country already was in a civil war and ripped
by Dragon Sworn. Where's the point?
We don't know where Demandred is but it is possible that he's the one
behind the siege on Caemlyn (I'm getting this from the T'A'R scene with
him in LoC in the Throne Room where he says "Let the Lord of Chaos
rule!"). If he is behind that than alright, but isn't that relatively
small, considering that the country itself dosen't seems to be in
chaos?
The only other example of chaos before KoD is Tear - the rebells from
Hadon's Mirk trying to take the Stone, but again - the country doesn't
seems to be in chaos.
So where's all that big chaos they talked about? The only real example
of true chaos in the prologue to KoD.
On the other hand we see the Seanchen bringing order to all of their
lands and Murandy starting to form into a solid country. This is
actualy the reverse of chaos.
It seems that if only the forsaken had left things as they were (minus
the TAS) they might have done better. Rand would have no reason to take
Tear, Andor and Illian and Murandy will not try to form up since they
would not see such a great threat. The nations would hardly know the
Dragon Reborn and would never follow him unless he will make them,
which will make a-lot more chaos than the present situation.
If they had realy wanted to make things worse they should have touch
the Border Lands, kill some Murandy lords and Wave Mistresses and so
on.
Even what Sammael had done to the Shaido didn't do much since many had
just been destroyed and it seems they would have made more chaos as a
big tribe, rather then many seperate septs.
Have the forsaken all failed?

In which book did someone massacre the entire Seanchan royal family?