Untapped uses of OP/TP?

[Dave Warner]

I've been thinking about some comments I've read recently regarding new
ways to use current OP/TP weaves. What are some untapped uses of those
common weaves we all know about? (...Balefire, traveling/skimming,
fireballs/lightning, delving, healing, compulsion, mirror of mists,
smacking people's butts with switches of Air, etc...)

To jump-start your potentially interested creative juices, here are
some uses I've considered that haven't been explored in the books:

-In a battle situation, use a large gateway behind your enemy's forces,
facing your enemy, to launch arrows, catapults, artillery, and such.
Make the gateway wider than it is tall, and on the near-the-enemy end,
make it elevated off the ground so enemy troops couldn't run through it
to get at you. This would make your arrows/bolts/artillery more
effective by shortening the effective distance, and by hitting the
enemy from an unexpected direction--reducing the effectiveness of
shields/armor. It would also extend the useful range of
archers/artillery--you could basically shoot them at anyone, anywhere,
provided you could create the gateway at the right spot. Especially
useful in a seige situation. This might be usable by Aes Sedai without
violating their Oath (I forget which one...2nd Oath?), considering the
way some AS use gateways to move troops.

-Similarly, how about a horizontal gateway, that opens up above an
enemy army. Drop rocks and explosives, send fireballs... Imagine how
Elayne could have used gateways during the seige of Caemlyn. In the
middle of the night, a team of archers and a circle of channelers shoot
arrows through gateways at each of the opposing camps. Not very
honourable, but it could be awfully effective.

-Another gateway use...have a channeler make a big weave of nothing in
particular, and then try to pick it apart, Aiel-Wise-One-style. A
second channeler makes a gateway to a safe spot a good long distance
away. Channeler 1 steps through the gateway and continues to pick
apart the weave through the gateway. Channeler 2 shuts the gateway,
and the big weave of nothing in particular (possibly) explodes with the
force of a thousand angry monkeys, as when Elayne tried to unravel the
weave in the countryside of Caemlyn. Could be useful for an ambush.

-Cuendillar armor. (Not a "weapon for one man to kill another".)

-This idea is making me chuckle...someone mentioned making small
gateways for the purpose of communication, and tying off the weaves. I
was imagining Aes Sedai sending messenger pigeons through gateways to
far-away pigeon coops. That would be funny.

-Obviously, weapons made of the same ter'angreal material as Mat's
foxhead medallion would be highly useful for fighting Gholam. This
would be a weapon specifically for killing Gholam; not killing other
humans, so it should be okay for Aes Sedai to make it. Assuming they
could ever get a hand on Mat's medallion.

Sorry that so many of these ideas are battle-related; I guess that's
just the way my thoughts are running this morning. I'd love to hear
some trade/commerce/politics/daily living uses for the OP/TP. Pour it
on me.

Dave Warner
***************
You can't have everything; and if you did, where would you put it?

[saberhack]

-Cuendillar armor. (Not a "weapon for one man to kill another".)

I thought of that one also, It is called heart stone,to keep the heart
beating I always theorized.

-Obviously, weapons made of the same ter'angreal material as Mat's
foxhead medallion would be highly useful for fighting Gholam. This
would be a weapon specifically for killing Gholam; not killing other
humans, so it should be okay for Aes Sedai to make it. Assuming they
could ever get a hand on Mat's medallion.

these dudes were made at teh end of the war of power. so they were relitivy
un known to the light - time to reread some book for info, but of course i
will have forgoten the question once i get to that book

[Antonio Contreras]

Post by Dave Warner
I've been thinking about some comments I've read recently regarding new
ways to use current OP/TP weaves. What are some untapped uses of those
common weaves we all know about? (...Balefire, traveling/skimming,
fireballs/lightning, delving, healing, compulsion, mirror of mists,
smacking people's butts with switches of Air, etc...)
To jump-start your potentially interested creative juices, here are

<snip ideas for using gateways in battle>

Post by Dave Warner
-Cuendillar armor. (Not a "weapon for one man to kill another".)

This idea was discussed ad nauseam some time ago, before the release of
KoD IIRC. Search for cuendillar and armour in this groups using google
groups if you're interested in it.

<snip some more ideas>

[Zachary A]

Post by Dave Warner
I've been thinking about some comments I've read recently regarding new
ways to use current OP/TP weaves. What are some untapped uses of those
common weaves we all know about? (...Balefire, traveling/skimming,
fireballs/lightning, delving, healing, compulsion, mirror of mists,
smacking people's butts with switches of Air, etc...)
To jump-start your potentially interested creative juices, here are

Snip

Post by Dave Warner
-Obviously, weapons made of the same ter'angreal material as Mat's
foxhead medallion would be highly useful for fighting Gholam. This
would be a weapon specifically for killing Gholam; not killing other
humans, so it should be okay for Aes Sedai to make it. Assuming they
could ever get a hand on Mat's medallion.

It would also be highly useful for killing Aes Sedai or Asha'man.

Post by Dave Warner
Sorry that so many of these ideas are battle-related; I guess that's
just the way my thoughts are running this morning. I'd love to hear
some trade/commerce/politics/daily living uses for the OP/TP. Pour it
on me.

Don't sweat it, my thoughts run the same way a lot too.

Post by Dave Warner
Dave Warner
***************
You can't have everything; and if you did, where would you put it?

Zachary

[Karsten]

Post by Dave Warner
-Another gateway use...have a channeler make a big weave of nothing in
particular, and then try to pick it apart, Aiel-Wise-One-style. A
second channeler makes a gateway to a safe spot a good long distance
away. Channeler 1 steps through the gateway and continues to pick
apart the weave through the gateway. Channeler 2 shuts the gateway,
and the big weave of nothing in particular (possibly) explodes with the
force of a thousand angry monkeys, as when Elayne tried to unravel the
weave in the countryside of Caemlyn. Could be useful for an ambush.

IIRC Avi stated that it couldn't be used as a weapon, since you didn't know
what outcome the unfinished picking would have. Of cause: one big mother of
an explosion would counter 1000 tries where the result of is "neglible"

Karsten

[Antonio Contreras]

Post by Karsten

Post by Dave Warner
-Another gateway use...have a channeler make a big weave of nothing in
particular, and then try to pick it apart, Aiel-Wise-One-style. A
second channeler makes a gateway to a safe spot a good long distance
away. Channeler 1 steps through the gateway and continues to pick
apart the weave through the gateway. Channeler 2 shuts the gateway,
and the big weave of nothing in particular (possibly) explodes with the
force of a thousand angry monkeys, as when Elayne tried to unravel the
weave in the countryside of Caemlyn. Could be useful for an ambush.

IIRC Avi stated that it couldn't be used as a weapon, since you didn't know
what outcome the unfinished picking would have. Of cause: one big mother of
an explosion would counter 1000 tries where the result of is "neglible"

Avi also said that each time that you tried to unravel a weave and
failed you had a chance to still yourself and to still every woman
within a hundred feet or so. I'm with the Wise Ones here, it's not
worth the risk, specially since you can produce one big mother of an
explosion without the risk.

[Dave Warner]

Post by Antonio Contreras
Avi also said that each time that you tried to unravel a weave and
failed you had a chance to still yourself and to still every woman
within a hundred feet or so. I'm with the Wise Ones here, it's not
worth the risk, specially since you can produce one big mother of an
explosion without the risk.

Hmm...yes...I forgot about the possibility of stilling. (Though that
can be Healed now. Still, more trouble than it's worth, considering
the risk of a permanent reduction in channeling ability.) Good point.

Another gateway idea: use it for irrigation/importing water. Make a
small gateway over your field o' crops (or your cistern), leading to
the bottom of a nearby (or not nearby) lake. Grin and tamp your pipe
as water rushes through, as long as the lake-bottom elevation is lower
than your field/cistern. Actually, no, that wouldn't matter
either--pressure builds up quite quickly as you go down into a depth of
water; is it 1/4 atmosphere per 10 feet or so? Something like 40psi
per 100 feet, I think. So that could cover quite a large change in
altitude, as long as the lake side of the gateway is somewhat deep.
You might bag a few fish while you're at it, too.

Gateway musing: It'd be awfully hard to stop a thief that could make a
gateway into/out of the local jewelry shop.

Delving would be wonderful for veterinarians. (Not that there appear
to be veterinarians in Randland, but I'm just saying, is all.)

Compulsion (gasp!) might or might not be wonderful for animal trainers.
Probably more humane than many of the negative-reinforcement methods
that have been employed through the ages to train animals.

Post by Antonio Contreras
It would also be highly useful for killing Aes Sedai or Asha'man.

Good point! I was just thinking about making the blade/tip/business
end out of the stuff, but why waste all that marvellous protection from
the OP? Of course, I suppose it could be hard to find an AS to make
the weapon for you, in that case. I wonder what would happen if an AS
tried to channel while touching a foxhead-material ter'angreal?
(Stilling? A tingling sensation on one side of the scalp? Great
gaping hole in the Pattern? Nothing?)

Man; traveling/gateways--just too powerful.

[Brian Trosko]

Post by Dave Warner
Another gateway idea: use it for irrigation/importing water. Make a
small gateway over your field o' crops (or your cistern), leading to
the bottom of a nearby (or not nearby) lake. Grin and tamp your pipe
as water rushes through, as long as the lake-bottom elevation is lower
than your field/cistern.

Screw this.


See the sun? Open a gateway from it to the middle of the enemy army.

[Dave Warner]

Post by Brian Trosko
Screw this.
See the sun? Open a gateway from it to the middle of the enemy army.

Interesting idea, which brings up an interesting question: can a
gateway take you to another planet, or the sun, or anywhere outside
Randland? Theoretically it seems like it should be able to, since
they're all woven in the same Pattern and such.

However, the "open a gateway from the sun to the middle of the enemy
army" idea has a couple of problems, I think. First, from examples
we've seen so far, the channeler is always physically near his side of
the gateway when he weaves it. This would place him: a)In the middle
of an enemy army, and b)In a very bad spot, from a "being vaporized by
unbelievably hot plasma" standpoint. Second, even if the channeler
were able to distance himself from the gateway, say to the extent of
his line of sight, it's still a mighty risky proposition to open a
gateway to all that extremely super-de-dooper high pressure/high
temperature plasma. I'd want to be 2 or 3 counties away at the
closest.

Huge potential for destruction, though. It'd make for a heck of a
suicide mission.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Brian Trosko

Post by Dave Warner
Another gateway idea: use it for irrigation/importing water. Make a
small gateway over your field o' crops (or your cistern), leading to
the bottom of a nearby (or not nearby) lake. Grin and tamp your pipe
as water rushes through, as long as the lake-bottom elevation is lower
than your field/cistern.

Screw this.
See the sun? Open a gateway from it to the middle of the enemy army.

Can Gateways be projected all that way?

[Jeff Rutter]

<snippage>
pressure builds up quite quickly as you go down into a depth of

Post by Dave Warner
water; is it 1/4 atmosphere per 10 feet or so? Something like 40psi
per 100 feet, I think.

For every 33 feet of depth pressure increases by one atmosphere. Sea level
=14.7 psi; 33 ft= 29.4 psi; 66 ft= 44.1 psi, etc.

[Brinner]

Post by Jeff Rutter
<snippage>
pressure builds up quite quickly as you go down into a depth of

Post by Dave Warner
water; is it 1/4 atmosphere per 10 feet or so? Something like 40psi
per 100 feet, I think.

For every 33 feet of depth pressure increases by one atmosphere. Sea level
=14.7 psi; 33 ft= 29.4 psi; 66 ft= 44.1 psi, etc.

Feet?!? Pounds!! If you're going to be all scientific at least use SI
units.

Brinner

[Jeff Rutter]

The common system of weights and measures seems good enough for me

Post by Brinner

Post by Jeff Rutter
<snippage>
pressure builds up quite quickly as you go down into a depth of

Post by Dave Warner
water; is it 1/4 atmosphere per 10 feet or so? Something like 40psi
per 100 feet, I think.

For every 33 feet of depth pressure increases by one atmosphere. Sea level
=14.7 psi; 33 ft= 29.4 psi; 66 ft= 44.1 psi, etc.

Feet?!? Pounds!! If you're going to be all scientific at least use SI
units.
Brinner

[Brinner]

Post by Jeff Rutter
The common system of weights and measures seems good enough for me

Never heard the heard the imperial system referred to as "The common
system of weights and measures" before. Its not that common when doing
physics, where I come from.

Brinner

[Dave Warner]

I can believe that it's not common in physics, but it is quite common
in engineering (in the United States, though probably not anywhere
else). The huge majority of engineering calculations and
specifications in the US are in inches, pounds, feet, gallons, etc.

[Brinner]

Post by Dave Warner
I can believe that it's not common in physics, but it is quite common
in engineering (in the United States, though probably not anywhere
else). The huge majority of engineering calculations and
specifications in the US are in inches, pounds, feet, gallons, etc.

I'll believe that, I work on Machines made in the US and Japan.
Everything on the machine made in the US is in Imperial ( I believe you
might call it standard), its head wrecking.

"3/8 or 9/16" what the fuck. On the Japanese machines if a 3 doesn't
fit I try a 4. It makes life so much easier.

Brinner

[Jamie Bowden]

Post by Brinner

Post by Dave Warner
I can believe that it's not common in physics, but it is quite common
in engineering (in the United States, though probably not anywhere
else). The huge majority of engineering calculations and
specifications in the US are in inches, pounds, feet, gallons, etc.

I'll believe that, I work on Machines made in the US and Japan.
Everything on the machine made in the US is in Imperial ( I believe you
might call it standard), its head wrecking.

SAE vs. Metric. Where it gets really fun is on older English cars where
you have both.

Post by Brinner
"3/8 or 9/16" what the fuck. On the Japanese machines if a 3 doesn't fit
I try a 4. It makes life so much easier.

Fraction of inch vs. fraction of meter. It's not difficult, really.
2.54cm/in.

Jamie Bowden

[Brinner]

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by Brinner

Post by Dave Warner
I can believe that it's not common in physics, but it is quite common
in engineering (in the United States, though probably not anywhere
else). The huge majority of engineering calculations and
specifications in the US are in inches, pounds, feet, gallons, etc.

I'll believe that, I work on Machines made in the US and Japan.
Everything on the machine made in the US is in Imperial ( I believe you
might call it standard), its head wrecking.

SAE vs. Metric. Where it gets really fun is on older English cars where
you have both.

Post by Brinner
"3/8 or 9/16" what the fuck. On the Japanese machines if a 3 doesn't fit
I try a 4. It makes life so much easier.

Fraction of inch vs. fraction of meter. It's not difficult, really.
2.54cm/in.

Not difficult, annoying. I'm talking about imperial tools v metric
tools.

Brinner

[Brinner]

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by Brinner

Post by Dave Warner
I can believe that it's not common in physics, but it is quite common
in engineering (in the United States, though probably not anywhere
else). The huge majority of engineering calculations and
specifications in the US are in inches, pounds, feet, gallons, etc.

I'll believe that, I work on Machines made in the US and Japan.
Everything on the machine made in the US is in Imperial ( I believe you
might call it standard), its head wrecking.

SAE vs. Metric. Where it gets really fun is on older English cars where
you have both.

I work on an Japenese built machine, which is in metric, but has an
American built upgrade which is in imperial. Similar situation, very
annoying. What does SAE stand for?

Brinner

[Jeff Rutter]

SAE stands for "Society of Automotive Engineers"

Post by Brinner

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by Brinner

Post by Dave Warner
I can believe that it's not common in physics, but it is quite common
in engineering (in the United States, though probably not anywhere
else). The huge majority of engineering calculations and
specifications in the US are in inches, pounds, feet, gallons, etc.

I'll believe that, I work on Machines made in the US and Japan.
Everything on the machine made in the US is in Imperial ( I believe you
might call it standard), its head wrecking.

SAE vs. Metric. Where it gets really fun is on older English cars where
you have both.

I work on an Japenese built machine, which is in metric, but has an
American built upgrade which is in imperial. Similar situation, very
annoying. What does SAE stand for?
Brinner

[Zdenek Dvorak]

Hello,

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by Brinner

Post by Dave Warner
I can believe that it's not common in physics, but it is quite common
in engineering (in the United States, though probably not anywhere
else). The huge majority of engineering calculations and
specifications in the US are in inches, pounds, feet, gallons, etc.

I'll believe that, I work on Machines made in the US and Japan.
Everything on the machine made in the US is in Imperial ( I believe you
might call it standard), its head wrecking.

SAE vs. Metric. Where it gets really fun is on older English cars where
you have both.

Post by Brinner
"3/8 or 9/16" what the fuck. On the Japanese machines if a 3 doesn't fit
I try a 4. It makes life so much easier.

Fraction of inch vs. fraction of meter. It's not difficult, really.
2.54cm/in.

"Seventeen silver Sickles to a Galleon and twenty-nine Knuts to a Sickle,
it's easy enough." ummm... wrong newsgroup...

Zdenek

[Karsten]

Post by Jamie Bowden
Fraction of inch vs. fraction of meter. It's not difficult, really.
2.54cm/in.

well...yes ... for an english inch. For a danish inch it is 2.61 cm/in. Are
there other country specific inches out there ?? :oP

Karsten

[David Chapman]

Post by Karsten

Post by Jamie Bowden
Fraction of inch vs. fraction of meter. It's not difficult, really.
2.54cm/in.

well...yes ... for an english inch. For a danish inch it is 2.61 cm/in.
Are there other country specific inches out there ?? :oP

The French did in Napoleonic times. The French inch was also slightly
larger.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Karsten

Post by Jamie Bowden
Fraction of inch vs. fraction of meter. It's not difficult, really.
2.54cm/in.

well...yes ... for an english inch. For a danish inch it is 2.61 cm/in. Are
there other country specific inches out there ?? :oP

Why would a Danish inch be longer?

[Jasper Janssen]

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by Brinner

Post by Dave Warner
I can believe that it's not common in physics, but it is quite common
in engineering (in the United States, though probably not anywhere
else). The huge majority of engineering calculations and
specifications in the US are in inches, pounds, feet, gallons, etc.

I'll believe that, I work on Machines made in the US and Japan.
Everything on the machine made in the US is in Imperial ( I believe you
might call it standard), its head wrecking.

SAE vs. Metric. Where it gets really fun is on older English cars where
you have both.

Nah, there you have Imperial rather than American Standard. It's not
*quite* entirely the same.

Oh, and Whitworth might arise as well, plus a few others that differ
mainly in thread shape, rather than in their vital statistics (ie, still n
tpi and m inch diameter, but the threads might be 55 instead of 60 degrees
or have round valleys rather than straight ones or sharp ones, etc.etc.

DO not anger the god of old threading systems, for he is subtle and..
well, actually, he's not that quick to anger, many of the more obscure
differences can be used more or less interchangeably.

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by Brinner
"3/8 or 9/16" what the fuck. On the Japanese machines if a 3 doesn't fit
I try a 4. It makes life so much easier.

Fraction of inch vs. fraction of meter. It's not difficult, really.
2.54cm/in.

Yeah, but at least in the metric wrenches, if a 4 don't fit it's usually a
5 or a 3 you go to, as opposed to SAE where if a 1/4" doesn't fit you
might go to 3/16 or 7/32 or even smaller divisions. Way too flexible,
those powers of two.


Jasper

[frenzie]

where i come from the are both valid so calm down both of you
live and let live
Brinner if you cant convert in your head or on paper just google for a
unit conversion calculator
there're plenty about

[Petter Strandmark]

Post by Dave Warner
-Similarly, how about a horizontal gateway, that opens up above an
enemy army. Drop rocks and explosives, send fireballs... Imagine how
Elayne could have used gateways during the seige of Caemlyn. In the
middle of the night, a team of archers and a circle of channelers shoot
arrows through gateways at each of the opposing camps. Not very
honourable, but it could be awfully effective.

Even better: open a GW facing away from you (towards a huge enemy
army) with the endpoint at the center of the earth or the sun. The
destruction would be enormous.

Post by Dave Warner
-Cuendillar armor. (Not a "weapon for one man to kill another".)

If you started with something as thin as aluminium foil, the result
would be really good.

[Atimus]

Post by Petter Strandmark

Post by Dave Warner
-Similarly, how about a horizontal gateway, that opens up above an
enemy army. Drop rocks and explosives, send fireballs... Imagine how
Elayne could have used gateways during the seige of Caemlyn. In the
middle of the night, a team of archers and a circle of channelers shoot
arrows through gateways at each of the opposing camps. Not very
honourable, but it could be awfully effective.

Even better: open a GW facing away from you (towards a huge enemy
army) with the endpoint at the center of the earth or the sun. The
destruction would be enormous.

Post by Dave Warner
-Cuendillar armor. (Not a "weapon for one man to kill another".)

If you started with something as thin as aluminium foil, the result
would be really good.
--
Petter

What I wonder is why the forsaken don't do things like that during
battle. Obviousely there had to be something in the War of Power that
made them used to not using their powers in that way, or else they
would have used them already. Why didn't Sammy use it when Rand was in
Carhien, or when Rand was attacking Illian? I think that what is going
to end up happeneing is that the bad guys and good guys are just going
to end up "negating" each other; as in the good guys make a gateway,
the shadow figures out some way to maybe close it or counter or
something differant. My guess is that the channelers are going to be
too busy cancelling out what the opponents are doing, and therefore
most of the fighting is going to be done hand to hand. Part of the
reason I believe this is because it seems that if we could come up with
these uses for gateways, then the shadow obviousely could have as well,
and yet they never seem to do anything remotely cool like that. It's
almost as if they were used to having those tactics countered, and just
don't use them anymore. And about cuendillar armor, cuendillar can't
bend, so it would kinda make an armor that you couldn't move in.

By the way, this is my first post on a newsgroup, so hello.

[Atimus]

Post by Petter Strandmark

Post by Dave Warner
-Similarly, how about a horizontal gateway, that opens up above an
enemy army. Drop rocks and explosives, send fireballs... Imagine how
Elayne could have used gateways during the seige of Caemlyn. In the
middle of the night, a team of archers and a circle of channelers shoot
arrows through gateways at each of the opposing camps. Not very
honourable, but it could be awfully effective.

Even better: open a GW facing away from you (towards a huge enemy
army) with the endpoint at the center of the earth or the sun. The
destruction would be enormous.

Post by Dave Warner
-Cuendillar armor. (Not a "weapon for one man to kill another".)

If you started with something as thin as aluminium foil, the result
would be really good.
--
Petter

What I wonder is why the forsaken don't do things like that during
battle. Obviousely there had to be something in the War of Power that
made them used to not using their powers in that way, or else they
would have used them already. Why didn't Sammy use it when Rand was in
Carhien, or when Rand was attacking Illian? I think that what is going
to end up happeneing is that the bad guys and good guys are just going
to end up "negating" each other; as in the good guys make a gateway,
the shadow figures out some way to maybe close it or counter or
something differant. My guess is that the channelers are going to be
too busy cancelling out what the opponents are doing, and therefore
most of the fighting is going to be done hand to hand. Part of the
reason I believe this is because it seems that if we could come up with
these uses for gateways, then the shadow obviousely could have as well,
and yet they never seem to do anything remotely cool like that. It's
almost as if they were used to having those tactics countered, and just
don't use them anymore. And about cuendillar armor, cuendillar can't
bend, so it would kinda make an armor that you couldn't move in.

By the way, this is my first post on a newsgroup, so hello.

[Andrew Kerr]

Post by Atimus

Post by Petter Strandmark

Post by Dave Warner
-Similarly, how about a horizontal gateway, that opens up above an
enemy army. Drop rocks and explosives, send fireballs... Imagine how
Elayne could have used gateways during the seige of Caemlyn. In the
middle of the night, a team of archers and a circle of channelers shoot
arrows through gateways at each of the opposing camps. Not very
honourable, but it could be awfully effective.

Even better: open a GW facing away from you (towards a huge enemy
army) with the endpoint at the center of the earth or the sun. The
destruction would be enormous.

Post by Dave Warner
-Cuendillar armor. (Not a "weapon for one man to kill another".)

If you started with something as thin as aluminium foil, the result
would be really good.
--
Petter

What I wonder is why the forsaken don't do things like that during
battle. Obviousely there had to be something in the War of Power that
made them used to not using their powers in that way, or else they
would have used them already. Why didn't Sammy use it when Rand was in
Carhien, or when Rand was attacking Illian? I think that what is going
to end up happeneing is that the bad guys and good guys are just going
to end up "negating" each other; as in the good guys make a gateway,
the shadow figures out some way to maybe close it or counter or
something differant. My guess is that the channelers are going to be
too busy cancelling out what the opponents are doing, and therefore
most of the fighting is going to be done hand to hand. Part of the
reason I believe this is because it seems that if we could come up with
these uses for gateways, then the shadow obviousely could have as well,
and yet they never seem to do anything remotely cool like that. It's
almost as if they were used to having those tactics countered, and just
don't use them anymore. And about cuendillar armor, cuendillar can't
bend, so it would kinda make an armor that you couldn't move in.
By the way, this is my first post on a newsgroup, so hello.

The reason gateways are not used like that is because it doesn't suit
the plot. RJ has created a magic that appears capable of doing
absolutely anything. That is unfortunate, because it means he has to
explain WHY certain actions cannot be done, or simply ignore those
possibilities.

IMO, the "Gateway" was a terrible plot device in the first place. It's
certainly convenient to be able to move characters wherever you want
them in a few seconds, but the implications of such magic are very wide.
Sieges are pointless, battles descend into useless chaos with characters
and armies jumping all over the place.

Magic such as Traveling has to be constrained to either a few very
powerful characters, or a few fixed locations (like Waypoints) for it to
be an interesting device.

A shirt of cuendillar chain mail would be flexible if each link was a
separate piece of metal. Similarly, an indestructible breastplate or
shield would come in handy. As with Traveling however, these pieces of
cuendillar armor would have to be very rare in order for them to be
effective plot devices. Now that there are characters who can forge this
substance, what is stopping them from outfitting an entire army with
indestructible shields? I know that Egwene and Leane are currently
occupied, but that doesn't mean someone else can't discover the weave if
RJ finds it necessary.

Andrew

[Rast]

In article <dOKCf.9118$***@read2.cgocable.net>, ***@yahoo.com
says...

[intelligent channeling]

Post by Andrew Kerr
The reason gateways are not used like that is because it doesn't suit
the plot. RJ has created a magic that appears capable of doing
absolutely anything. That is unfortunate, because it means he has to
explain WHY certain actions cannot be done, or simply ignore those
possibilities.
IMO, the "Gateway" was a terrible plot device in the first place. It's
certainly convenient to be able to move characters wherever you want
them in a few seconds, but the implications of such magic are very wide.
Sieges are pointless, battles descend into useless chaos with characters
and armies jumping all over the place.
Magic such as Traveling has to be constrained to either a few very
powerful characters, or a few fixed locations (like Waypoints) for it to
be an interesting device.

Well said. Jordan should have gone with what Moiraine said in the first
book [1], and limited Traveling to Foresaken-class channelers only. It
should also have been based on raw channeling ability, so linking or
using angreal wouldn't let a weak channeler open a Gateway. This would
have left the Good Guys with only four characters able to Travel
(counting Taim but not that Seachan girl, since she should never have
been written in to the story).

The interesting thing is that such a change would require very few plot
changes to the story as written, which just goes to show how little
thought Jordan (or the Good Guys) have put into the whole Traveling
thing.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Dave Warner
I've been thinking about some comments I've read recently regarding new
ways to use current OP/TP weaves. What are some untapped uses of those
common weaves we all know about? (...Balefire, traveling/skimming,
fireballs/lightning, delving, healing, compulsion, mirror of mists,
smacking people's butts with switches of Air, etc...)
To jump-start your potentially interested creative juices, here are
-In a battle situation, use a large gateway behind your enemy's forces,
facing your enemy, to launch arrows, catapults, artillery, and such.
Make the gateway wider than it is tall, and on the near-the-enemy end,
make it elevated off the ground so enemy troops couldn't run through it
to get at you. This would make your arrows/bolts/artillery more
effective by shortening the effective distance, and by hitting the
enemy from an unexpected direction--reducing the effectiveness of
shields/armor. It would also extend the useful range of
archers/artillery--you could basically shoot them at anyone, anywhere,
provided you could create the gateway at the right spot. Especially
useful in a seige situation. This might be usable by Aes Sedai without
violating their Oath (I forget which one...2nd Oath?), considering the
way some AS use gateways to move troops.
-Similarly, how about a horizontal gateway, that opens up above an
enemy army. Drop rocks and explosives, send fireballs... Imagine how
Elayne could have used gateways during the seige of Caemlyn. In the
middle of the night, a team of archers and a circle of channelers shoot
arrows through gateways at each of the opposing camps. Not very
honourable, but it could be awfully effective.
-Another gateway use...have a channeler make a big weave of nothing in
particular, and then try to pick it apart, Aiel-Wise-One-style. A
second channeler makes a gateway to a safe spot a good long distance
away. Channeler 1 steps through the gateway and continues to pick
apart the weave through the gateway. Channeler 2 shuts the gateway,
and the big weave of nothing in particular (possibly) explodes with the
force of a thousand angry monkeys, as when Elayne tried to unravel the
weave in the countryside of Caemlyn. Could be useful for an ambush.
-Cuendillar armor. (Not a "weapon for one man to kill another".)

How do you get out of it?

Post by Dave Warner
-This idea is making me chuckle...someone mentioned making small
gateways for the purpose of communication, and tying off the weaves. I
was imagining Aes Sedai sending messenger pigeons through gateways to
far-away pigeon coops. That would be funny.
-Obviously, weapons made of the same ter'angreal material as Mat's
foxhead medallion would be highly useful for fighting Gholam. This
would be a weapon specifically for killing Gholam; not killing other
humans, so it should be okay for Aes Sedai to make it. Assuming they
could ever get a hand on Mat's medallion.
Sorry that so many of these ideas are battle-related; I guess that's
just the way my thoughts are running this morning. I'd love to hear
some trade/commerce/politics/daily living uses for the OP/TP. Pour it
on me.

Use micro Gateways to infuse channeler's drinks with forkroot.

Politics: Use the Blue Ajah's Fear Weave at a political rally of one's
opponent.

Use Gateways to transport merchant caravans.

Use Gateways to dispose of trash. Use Balefire on your trash.

Throw trash into the Portal Worlds.

OP back massage.