Can Jordan Really Finish This?

[o***@yahoo.com]

This is my first Usenet post so please go easy on me.

I just finished Knife of Dreams and I'm extremely skeptical of Jordan
being able to finish this thing within one book-even a "2,000 page
monster." He has made admirable progress moving things along with KoD
but I have my doubts as to whether it is enough. At the very least,
he's going to have to end up just dropping many smaller plot lines or
making the Last Battle quite short. To finish up the series with any
degree of satisfaction it's going to take *at least* 2,000 pages if
not more like 3,000, in my opinion.

I actually welcome Jordan's possible 2,000 page book twelve. I'd
rather have it take the time to be finished well than have the series
get cut off at the knees. But I really doubt Jordan will ever put
anything out above 1,100 pages or so. For one, I doubt his publisher
will let him. Not only will they probably feel that a book that long
won't sell well, they won't want to print something that long and
charge the standard price for it. I paid about $30.00 for KoD and
that was around 730 pages or so. If they charge the same price for a
2,000 page book Tor will make a lot less money. I speculate that if
they do let him release a 2,000 page book they'll cut it up into two
volumes released very quickly after one another. Whether Jordan will
go for that I don't know. I doubt it.

I'd appreciate opinions on this.

[Aaron]

Post by o***@yahoo.com
This is my first Usenet post so please go easy on me.
I just finished Knife of Dreams and I'm extremely skeptical of Jordan
being able to finish this thing within one book-even a "2,000 page
monster." He has made admirable progress moving things along with KoD
but I have my doubts as to whether it is enough. At the very least,
he's going to have to end up just dropping many smaller plot lines or
making the Last Battle quite short. To finish up the series with any
degree of satisfaction it's going to take *at least* 2,000 pages if
not more like 3,000, in my opinion.
I actually welcome Jordan's possible 2,000 page book twelve. I'd
rather have it take the time to be finished well than have the series
get cut off at the knees. But I really doubt Jordan will ever put
anything out above 1,100 pages or so. For one, I doubt his publisher
will let him. Not only will they probably feel that a book that long
won't sell well, they won't want to print something that long and
charge the standard price for it. I paid about $30.00 for KoD and
that was around 730 pages or so. If they charge the same price for a
2,000 page book Tor will make a lot less money. I speculate that if
they do let him release a 2,000 page book they'll cut it up into two
volumes released very quickly after one another. Whether Jordan will
go for that I don't know. I doubt it.
I'd appreciate opinions on this.

Ok, since you asked nicely... Still, you should know that if you look
through the newsgroup, you will see this topic addressed more times
than you can shake a mouse-pointer at.

Yes, there are far too many plotlines for RJ to conclude them well, in
(IMO) anything less than 3,000 pages.

On the other hand, RJ has said that not all of the sideplots will be
resolved before the Last Battle begins.

I think the "last" book is going to go down just like RJ is predicting.
He's going to write it, it's going to be huge, and the publisher is
going to make it into 2 books (or 3???). So, we'll have 13 books, but
(annoyingly) RJ will point out that he *tried* to make it only 12
books. He really did! It was all the publisher's fault. They swore to
me that we needed more bath scenes with Elayne!

Anyway, I agree about the page limit, for profit reasons, and for
functionality reasons. Think about it: it may not be a problem for a
hardcover book to be 3,000 pages, but I don't think a paperback could
hold up to being so thick. Plus, think of how damn heavy both (but
especially the hard cover book) would be! My bag for work is heavy
enough without Oxford's unabridged dictionary in it! So, the other
option would be to make it huge (8.5" by 11" or more), but this is also
impractical, because then it doesn't fit into most storage locations.

So, yes, 2 (or 3!!) more books, for profit and practical reasons.
Unless (!!!!) he just unleashes the DO on page 600, and the DO wipes
out all existance in the next 100 pages. The end.[1]

-Aaron

[1] Is it sad that, at this point, I really wouldn't mind that ending?

[BFD!]

Post by Aaron
Unless (!!!!) he just unleashes the DO on page 600, and the DO wipes
out all existance in the next 100 pages. The end.[1]
-Aaron
[1] Is it sad that, at this point, I really wouldn't mind that ending?

No.

I commiserate with you, friend.

BFD!

[Tilvios]

Post by Aaron
Anyway, I agree about the page limit, for profit reasons, and for
functionality reasons. Think about it: it may not be a problem for a
hardcover book to be 3,000 pages, but I don't think a paperback could
hold up to being so thick. Plus, think of how damn heavy both (but
especially the hard cover book) would be! My bag for work is heavy
enough without Oxford's unabridged dictionary in it! So, the other
option would be to make it huge (8.5" by 11" or more), but this is also
impractical, because then it doesn't fit into most storage locations.

To Green Angel Tower by Tad Williams was published as one hardcover and
two paperbacks. So breaking a huge hardcover into multiple paperbacks
has been done in the past. Of course the hardcover for that book was
well over 1000 pages, but not the 3000 or even 2000 pages long that
tWoT will require to be done right.

[Diamond3Bob]

One reason for the length of the middle books of the series is that the
different plot lines were diverging. As they begin to come together it
may be possible to complete in a single book. I agree that the
publisher will probably issue two volumes in quick succession for
profit, but Jordan can write it all at the same time. Look how much
was accomplished in short periods in the current book



SPOILER ALERT










Shido were destroyed; as were the masses of the Prophet; Semerage
captured; Seanchan tied through Tuon to Mat and then to Rand; Andor
under Elayne tied to Rand; Egwene has essentially won the White Tower
(maybe 30 pages to complete this sub-plot); Lan is crossing the
borderlands to gather his army (another 30 pages to get him to Tarwin's
Gap); this is just to mention a few of the resolutions that occurred in
KoD. It is all starting to come together and once it does it won't be
too too difficult to bring everything together.

The biggest thing needing resolution is Moraine's rescue from the
Finn's (maybe 50 pages here).

[Curious Orange]

I wouldn't mind everything being tied up quickly if he hadn't spent so
many books with precious little happening.

I don't think Moiraine will be rescued. I think the nearest we'll get
is an epilogue where Thom and Co. set off through the ter'angreal to
seek her.

[Petter Strandmark]

Post by Curious Orange
I don't think Moiraine will be rescued. I think the nearest we'll get
is an epilogue where Thom and Co. set off through the ter'angreal to
seek her.

But Mat obviously has a large part to play in the Last Battle and he is
on his way to rescue her now.

[Aaron]

Post by Petter Strandmark

Post by Curious Orange
I don't think Moiraine will be rescued. I think the nearest we'll get
is an epilogue where Thom and Co. set off through the ter'angreal to
seek her.

But Mat obviously has a large part to play in the Last Battle and he is
on his way to rescue her now.

More importantly, Min has seen that Rand is "almost certain" to fail,
unless Moiraine ("a woman who is dead and gone") is with him. To me,
this means she must come back before the Last Battle.

Post by Petter Strandmark
--
Petter

-Aaron

[Jon al'Thor]

Post by Aaron
More importantly, Min has seen that Rand is "almost certain" to fail,
unless Moiraine ("a woman who is dead and gone") is with him. To me,
this means she must come back before the Last Battle.

That could refeer to Cadsuane, who everyone thought was dead and gone
20 years ago.

[Jamie Bowden]

Post by Aaron
More importantly, Min has seen that Rand is "almost certain" to fail,
unless Moiraine ("a woman who is dead and gone") is with him. To me,
this means she must come back before the Last Battle.

That could refeer to Cadsuane, who everyone thought was dead and gone 20
years ago.

Learn to attribute.

This also ignores the bit where Min thinks this directly in reference to
Moiraine in that passage.

Jamie Bowden

[Jon al'Thor]

Post by Jamie Bowden
Learn to attribute.

Sorry, as my ISP doesn't have any news service I'm forced to use
Google-groups. Please just be hapy that I'm at least quoteing what I'm
answaring to...

Post by Jamie Bowden
This also ignores the bit where Min thinks this directly in reference to
Moiraine in that passage.

As if no one has missinterpritated a viewing/dream/prophesy in this
series before...

Imho viewings/dreams/prophesies etc can be consided final in WoT, but
characters interpretations of the same can not. If we have more or
newer information than they had when doing their interpritation, we can
reasonably make a better one.

Post by Jamie Bowden
Jamie Bowden

- Jon

[NightBaron]

Post by Jon al'Thor

Post by Jamie Bowden
Learn to attribute.

Sorry, as my ISP doesn't have any news service I'm forced to use
Google-groups. Please just be hapy that I'm at least quoteing what I'm
answaring to...

I use Google Groups at work as well, and I have no trouble leaving in
the attributions.

[Jon al'Thor]

Post by NightBaron
I use Google Groups at work as well, and I have no trouble leaving in
the attributions.

Leaving in? As there is nothing to begin with I can't *leave* anything
in!
I have to manually copy the text and add the ">" in the begining of
each line. I suppose I could copy the name of the poster, manually
remove all stupid whitespaces that is added, and add " wrote:" on the
end (as I did this time), but as I usually only want to give a short
answare I don't bother.

[Antonio Contreras]

Post by Jon al'Thor

Post by NightBaron
I use Google Groups at work as well, and I have no trouble leaving in
the attributions.

Leaving in? As there is nothing to begin with I can't *leave* anything
in!
I have to manually copy the text and add the ">" in the begining of
each line. I suppose I could copy the name of the poster, manually
remove all stupid whitespaces that is added, and add " wrote:" on the
end (as I did this time), but as I usually only want to give a short
answare I don't bother.

Hint:

Don't use the broken reply link under the message. Instead click on
"Show options" and then click on the Reply link that appears in the
message header.

[Jon al'Thor]

Post by Antonio Contreras
Don't use the broken reply link under the message. Instead click on
"Show options" and then click on the Reply link that appears in the
message header.

Thanks, didn't know about that one.
Much more usefull!

Thanks again
- Jonno

[David]

Post by Jon al'Thor

Post by Jamie Bowden
Learn to attribute.

Sorry, as my ISP doesn't have any news service I'm forced to use
Google-groups. Please just be hapy that I'm at least quoteing what I'm
answaring to...

Post by Jamie Bowden
This also ignores the bit where Min thinks this directly in reference to
Moiraine in that passage.

As if no one has missinterpritated a viewing/dream/prophesy in this
series before...
Imho viewings/dreams/prophesies etc can be consided final in WoT, but
characters interpretations of the same can not. If we have more or
newer information than they had when doing their interpritation, we can
reasonably make a better one.

Post by Jamie Bowden
Jamie Bowden

- Jon

I use the free service news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com as my ISP does
not have a newsgroup server either.

[Jon al'Thor]

Post by David
I use the free service news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com as my ISP does
not have a newsgroup server either.

That would have been great, but it seams they are only open to
australian users.
If anyone knows about a free news service accesible from Sweeden, that
would be wonderfull.

[Jamie Bowden]

Post by Jon al'Thor

Post by David
I use the free service news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com as my ISP does
not have a newsgroup server either.

That would have been great, but it seams they are only open to
australian users. If anyone knows about a free news service accesible
from Sweeden, that would be wonderfull.

http://www.x-privat.org/

Jamie Bowden

[Jamie Bowden]

Post by Jon al'Thor

Post by Jamie Bowden
This also ignores the bit where Min thinks this directly in reference
to Moiraine in that passage.

As if no one has missinterpritated a viewing/dream/prophesy in this
series before...
Imho viewings/dreams/prophesies etc can be consided final in WoT, but
characters interpretations of the same can not. If we have more or newer
information than they had when doing their interpritation, we can
reasonably make a better one.

Min's a special case. When she knows, she's never wrong.

Jamie Bowden

[Mathius]

Post by Jon al'Thor

Post by Aaron
More importantly, Min has seen that Rand is "almost certain" to fail,
unless Moiraine ("a woman who is dead and gone") is with him. To me,
this means she must come back before the Last Battle.

That could refeer to Cadsuane, who everyone thought was dead and gone
20 years ago.

I'm sorry to cover something that's evidently already been said, but did RJ
really say or imply that there would only be one book left? What was the
reasoning? I'm a bit impatient to see the end of the series myself, but not
at the cost of the plot. I can't see how he's going to wrap it all up in
one book without rushing everything. There would literally have to be
action in every single chapter I think. We still have the White Tower to
patch up, and Egwene's making slow progress, but that's about it. There's
still the Seanchan to come to terms with. There's Galad's Whitecloaks, the
armies in Arad Doman that we've seen in the last 2 books, If Mat is
supposed to help secure the Seanchan, well he just sent Tuon back to Ebou
Dar, didn't he? Then we have the Younglings, the Aiel, Bashere hasn't been
settled with Tenobia, Perrin still hasn't done anything with Masema. The
Tinkers haven't found the song. We have no idea what the Ogiers are up to,
or for that matter, how come the Seanchan Ogiers didn't succumb to the
Longing. Is Rand ever going to talk to Tam? I've been dying to hear that
conversation. I wish I could have seen Tam fight alongside Rand as
blademasters, but it's going to be a while before Rand gets his hand back,
or learns how to fight with one hand. Seems like way too much left to talk
about.

Mathius

[Diamond3Bob]

Moraine is somehow critical to Rand's success; she will be rescued

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Diamond3Bob
One reason for the length of the middle books of the series is that the
different plot lines were diverging. As they begin to come together it
may be possible to complete in a single book. I agree that the
publisher will probably issue two volumes in quick succession for
profit, but Jordan can write it all at the same time. Look how much
was accomplished in short periods in the current book
SPOILER ALERT
1

11
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
11
1
1

Post by Diamond3Bob
Shido were destroyed; as were the masses of the Prophet; Semerage
captured; Seanchan tied through Tuon to Mat and then to Rand; Andor
under Elayne tied to Rand; Egwene has essentially won the White Tower
(maybe 30 pages to complete this sub-plot); Lan is crossing the
borderlands to gather his army (another 30 pages to get him to Tarwin's
Gap); this is just to mention a few of the resolutions that occurred in
KoD. It is all starting to come together and once it does it won't be
too too difficult to bring everything together.

The Seanchan have yet to agree to an alliance with Rand.

Post by Diamond3Bob
The biggest thing needing resolution is Moraine's rescue from the
Finn's (maybe 50 pages here).

We also need to resolve the Black Tower conflict.

[Petter Strandmark]

Post by o***@yahoo.com
I just finished Knife of Dreams and I'm extremely skeptical of Jordan
being able to finish this thing within one book-even a "2,000 page
monster."

It is possible to finish the series in one book. Look at how much EotW
contains. Although if he succeeds, the last book will make Knife of
Dreams seem like Crossroads of Twilight.

The most likely scenario is one book split into two by the publisher.

[Marton Field]

Post by Petter Strandmark
The most likely scenario is one book split into two by the publisher.

Agreed. But here is another possibility.

Consider that RJ intends to write more WOT stuff apart from Vol 12:
viz http:www.dragonmount.com/RobertJordan/
"there will be one more main sequence novel. At some point in the
future I will do two more short prequel novels. I have signed the
contracts for a trilogy -- the first of two planned -- entitled
Infinity of Heaven. And Harriet and I will be doing an encyclopedia
once Book 12 is complete. I've said frequently that I wouldn't write
in this universe again once tWoT was done unless I had a really great
idea. I may -- I say again, may -- have had such an idea...."

Why not do a Vol ZZ as the final volume, at normal book length, so that
those who want finality can read it, spit out the blood and guts and
move on. RJ could refer to the results of terminated threads without
going into details, and could do any number of pre-endquels (Vols 12,
13...Z-1) later to fill in the gaps.

Comments?



-- Solipsist sliding away --

[Tux Wonder-Dog]

Post by o***@yahoo.com
This is my first Usenet post so please go easy on me.
I just finished Knife of Dreams and I'm extremely skeptical of Jordan
being able to finish this thing within one book-even a "2,000 page
monster." He has made admirable progress moving things along with KoD
but I have my doubts as to whether it is enough. At the very least,
he's going to have to end up just dropping many smaller plot lines or
making the Last Battle quite short. To finish up the series with any
degree of satisfaction it's going to take *at least* 2,000 pages if
not more like 3,000, in my opinion.
I actually welcome Jordan's possible 2,000 page book twelve. I'd
rather have it take the time to be finished well than have the series
get cut off at the knees. But I really doubt Jordan will ever put
anything out above 1,100 pages or so. For one, I doubt his publisher
will let him. Not only will they probably feel that a book that long
won't sell well, they won't want to print something that long and
charge the standard price for it. I paid about $30.00 for KoD and
that was around 730 pages or so. If they charge the same price for a
2,000 page book Tor will make a lot less money. I speculate that if
they do let him release a 2,000 page book they'll cut it up into two
volumes released very quickly after one another. Whether Jordan will
go for that I don't know. I doubt it.
I'd appreciate opinions on this.

Jordan will go into a terangreal and acquire the remaining 500,000 page
booklet, after which the publisher will slowly and steadily go mad. ;)

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Tux Wonder-Dog

Post by o***@yahoo.com
This is my first Usenet post so please go easy on me.
I just finished Knife of Dreams and I'm extremely skeptical of Jordan
being able to finish this thing within one book-even a "2,000 page
monster." He has made admirable progress moving things along with KoD
but I have my doubts as to whether it is enough. At the very least,
he's going to have to end up just dropping many smaller plot lines or
making the Last Battle quite short. To finish up the series with any
degree of satisfaction it's going to take *at least* 2,000 pages if
not more like 3,000, in my opinion.
I actually welcome Jordan's possible 2,000 page book twelve. I'd
rather have it take the time to be finished well than have the series
get cut off at the knees. But I really doubt Jordan will ever put
anything out above 1,100 pages or so. For one, I doubt his publisher
will let him. Not only will they probably feel that a book that long
won't sell well, they won't want to print something that long and
charge the standard price for it. I paid about $30.00 for KoD and
that was around 730 pages or so. If they charge the same price for a
2,000 page book Tor will make a lot less money. I speculate that if
they do let him release a 2,000 page book they'll cut it up into two
volumes released very quickly after one another. Whether Jordan will
go for that I don't know. I doubt it.
I'd appreciate opinions on this.

Jordan will go into a terangreal and acquire the remaining 500,000 page
booklet, after which the publisher will slowly and steadily go mad. ;)
--

LOL!