Discussion:
(Spoilers) Taim was meant to be Demandred and it was changed
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Tayshon M. Andred
2013-01-15 02:59:36 UTC
Permalink
Sorry but Demandred fucking about in Shara wasn't adequately epic enough
to account for his concealment for ten billion novels. Then Taim
coincidentally becomes Chosen? Pshaw. Demandred was obviously supposed
to be Taim from the start, and Jordan changed it because readers figured
it out.
fingolfinon
2013-01-23 20:34:16 UTC
Permalink
Agreed. It was kind of a force-fit to have two badass male channelers on the final battlefield. Demandred, and....this other guy who was never Demandred.
fingolfinon
2013-01-23 20:34:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by fingolfinon
Agreed. It was kind of a force-fit to have two badass male channelers on the final battlefield. Demandred, and....this other guy who was never Demandred.
Chucky @ Work
2013-02-25 13:47:22 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:34:16 -0800 (PST), fingolfinon
Post by fingolfinon
Agreed. It was kind of a force-fit to have two badass male channelers on the final battlefield. Demandred, and....this other guy who was never Demandred.
*snort*



- ***@w
--
13 of 12, the CMM Collective
CHOW:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/chow-a-dance-with-dragons/
Give a hoot, read my book:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/arsebook-my-rear-in-status-2011/
Chucky @ Work
2013-02-25 13:15:18 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 03:59:36 +0100, Tayshon M. Andred
Post by Tayshon M. Andred
Sorry but Demandred fucking about in Shara wasn't adequately epic enough
to account for his concealment for ten billion novels. Then Taim
coincidentally becomes Chosen? Pshaw. Demandred was obviously supposed
to be Taim from the start, and Jordan changed it because readers figured
it out.
Demandred in Shara was the final proof (if any was needed for those
who said he wasn't Taim all along, what, did they just make it up and
have no evidence or something?) that Taim was never Demandred. He
wasn't in the Black Tower, his work in the east was Shara from the
start. He'd set himself up as a pharaoh over there. Done what all the
Forsaken should have done from the start. It was fucking golden.

Of course, I never thought this would stop the Taimandretards from
crying and pissing and moaning like bitches with skinned knees. That's
just not in their characters.


- ***@w
--
13 of 12, the CMM Collective
CHOW:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/chow-a-dance-with-dragons/
Give a hoot, read my book:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/arsebook-my-rear-in-status-2011/
Rast
2013-02-27 21:20:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky @ Work
Demandred in Shara was the final proof (if any was needed for those
who said he wasn't Taim all along, what, did they just make it up and
have no evidence or something?) that Taim was never Demandred. He
wasn't in the Black Tower, his work in the east was Shara from the
start.
Except that back when Taim showed up, Demandred wasn't in Shara -- he
was in a Secret Location, possibly the Black Tower. It was only in
this final book that he was shown to have been in Shara "all along".
Chucky @ Work
2013-02-28 09:29:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rast
Post by Chucky @ Work
Demandred in Shara was the final proof (if any was needed for those
who said he wasn't Taim all along, what, did they just make it up and
have no evidence or something?) that Taim was never Demandred. He
wasn't in the Black Tower, his work in the south was Shara from the
start.
Except that back when Taim showed up, Demandred wasn't in Shara
You know this how?
Post by Rast
-- he
was in a Secret Location, possibly the Black Tower.
Possibly Shara.
Post by Rast
It was only in
this final book that he was shown to have been in Shara "all along".
Worked for me. And other people who weren't Taimandretards.



- ***@w
--
13 of 12, the CMM Collective
CHOW:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/chow-a-dance-with-dragons/
Give a hoot, read my book:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/arsebook-my-rear-in-status-2011/
Rast
2013-02-28 21:31:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky @ Work
Post by Rast
Except that back when Taim showed up, Demandred wasn't in Shara
You know this how?
Keep in mind that it could easily have been Ishy running Shara all
along, until the final book.
Post by Chucky @ Work
Post by Rast
It was only in
this final book that he was shown to have been in Shara "all along".
Worked for me. And other people who weren't Taimandretards.
How do you explain that Taim, as originally introduced, talks and acts
like an AOL Forsaken with a special grudge against LTT?
Chucky @ Work
2013-03-01 06:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rast
Post by Chucky @ Work
Post by Rast
Except that back when Taim showed up, Demandred wasn't in Shara
You know this how?
Keep in mind that it could easily have been Ishy running Shara all
along, until the final book.
Oh, don't get me started on Ishamael.
Post by Rast
Post by Chucky @ Work
Post by Rast
It was only in
this final book that he was shown to have been in Shara "all along".
Worked for me. And other people who weren't Taimandretards.
How do you explain that Taim, as originally introduced, talks and acts
like an AOL Forsaken with a special grudge against LTT?
He was a Darkfriend in communication with the Forsaken and the Dark
One, or at least with the Nae'blis. He was a Dreadlord impressive
enough to *make* Forsaken. He was a false Dragon with a grudge against
Rand. He had secrets and tricks that I think we still didn't get to
the bottom of. Why should Egwene and Elayne and Nynaeve and Androl and
the rest of the good guys get all the amazing breakthroughs and
superpowers? Taim was one of the few things Jordan got right from the
start. It has always annoyed me that there were people reading the
books who just wouldn't be satisfied with this guy as a new and
stand-alone character, instead preferring to have him be *another*
character in disguise, thus wasting *two* characters instead of one.
In a story where there was already a whole mess of such characters.

Of course, being right turned out to be quite a balm on that boo-boo.





- ***@w
--
13 of 12, the CMM Collective
CHOW:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/chow-a-dance-with-dragons/
Give a hoot, read my book:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/arsebook-my-rear-in-status-2011/
Chucky @ Work
2013-03-01 06:36:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rast
Post by Chucky @ Work
Post by Rast
Except that back when Taim showed up, Demandred wasn't in Shara
You know this how?
Keep in mind that it could easily have been Ishy running Shara all
along, until the final book.
Actually, I should add that Ishamael in Shara seemed unlikely. We'd
seen Sharans before, fleetingly, but they were part of Graendal's toy
collection (sh'botan and sh'botay, or something like that? Sharan
leaders?). I'd have to have a look at how the other Forsaken reacted
to those guys, if at all, and what (if anything) Graendal said about
them.

I'm wondering, now, how she got them and why Demandred didn't give a
shit. I guess there was no real reason for him to. Removing those
leaders probably gave him the inroad he needed to become the Wyld of
Sharan prophecy, anyway.


- ***@w
--
13 of 12, the CMM Collective
CHOW:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/chow-a-dance-with-dragons/
Give a hoot, read my book:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/arsebook-my-rear-in-status-2011/
TB
2013-03-02 11:44:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky @ Work
Post by Rast
Post by Chucky @ Work
Post by Rast
Except that back when Taim showed up, Demandred wasn't in Shara
You know this how?
Keep in mind that it could easily have been Ishy running Shara all
along, until the final book.
Actually, I should add that Ishamael in Shara seemed unlikely. We'd
seen Sharans before, fleetingly, but they were part of Graendal's toy
collection (sh'botan and sh'botay, or something like that? Sharan
leaders?). I'd have to have a look at how the other Forsaken reacted
to those guys, if at all, and what (if anything) Graendal said about
them.
I'm wondering, now, how she got them and why Demandred didn't give a
shit. I guess there was no real reason for him to. Removing those
leaders probably gave him the inroad he needed to become the Wyld of
Sharan prophecy, anyway.
If Demandred had not taken over the Shara, would the Wyld of Sharan
prophecy have turned out to be Rand? (All the other cultures seem to
have prophecies regarding super-leaders who turned out to be Rand).
Chucky @ Work
2013-03-04 13:00:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by TB
Post by Chucky @ Work
Post by Rast
Post by Chucky @ Work
Post by Rast
Except that back when Taim showed up, Demandred wasn't in Shara
You know this how?
Keep in mind that it could easily have been Ishy running Shara all
along, until the final book.
Actually, I should add that Ishamael in Shara seemed unlikely. We'd
seen Sharans before, fleetingly, but they were part of Graendal's toy
collection (sh'botan and sh'botay, or something like that? Sharan
leaders?). I'd have to have a look at how the other Forsaken reacted
to those guys, if at all, and what (if anything) Graendal said about
them.
I'm wondering, now, how she got them and why Demandred didn't give a
shit. I guess there was no real reason for him to. Removing those
leaders probably gave him the inroad he needed to become the Wyld of
Sharan prophecy, anyway.
If Demandred had not taken over the Shara, would the Wyld of Sharan
prophecy have turned out to be Rand? (All the other cultures seem to
have prophecies regarding super-leaders who turned out to be Rand).
Interesting point. It's entirely possible. Indeed, maybe Rand *was*
the Wyld all along, they just never met him and Demandred filled in as
a False Wyld. Rand nevertheless fulfilled their prophecies.

I do wonder why he never went there, though. Rand, I mean. Did he just
forget about the place? Seems that he could have set aside an
afternoon or something, once he figured out how to teleport.



- ***@w
--
13 of 12, the CMM Collective
CHOW:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/chow-a-dance-with-dragons/
Give a hoot, read my book:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/arsebook-my-rear-in-status-2011/
Contro
2013-03-03 15:49:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky @ Work
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 03:59:36 +0100, Tayshon M. Andred
Post by Tayshon M. Andred
Sorry but Demandred fucking about in Shara wasn't adequately epic enough
to account for his concealment for ten billion novels. Then Taim
coincidentally becomes Chosen? Pshaw. Demandred was obviously supposed
to be Taim from the start, and Jordan changed it because readers figured
it out.
Demandred in Shara was the final proof (if any was needed for those
who said he wasn't Taim all along, what, did they just make it up and
have no evidence or something?) that Taim was never Demandred. He
wasn't in the Black Tower, his work in the east was Shara from the
start. He'd set himself up as a pharaoh over there. Done what all the
Forsaken should have done from the start. It was fucking golden.
Of course, I never thought this would stop the Taimandretards from
crying and pissing and moaning like bitches with skinned knees. That's
just not in their characters.
Yes, it's bonkers that only Demandred did anything like what the
Forsaken should have done...but well, I guess perhaps the others were
doing it in a crowded set of countries, but it does seem odd.

Still, he was a great baddie for the book though.
--
Contro.
TB
2013-03-04 06:09:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Contro
Post by Chucky @ Work
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 03:59:36 +0100, Tayshon M. Andred
Post by Tayshon M. Andred
Sorry but Demandred fucking about in Shara wasn't adequately epic enough
to account for his concealment for ten billion novels.  Then Taim
coincidentally becomes Chosen?  Pshaw.  Demandred was obviously supposed
to be Taim from the start, and Jordan changed it because readers figured
it out.
Demandred in Shara was the final proof (if any was needed for those
who said he wasn't Taim all along, what, did they just make it up and
have no evidence or something?) that Taim was never Demandred. He
wasn't in the Black Tower, his work in the east was Shara from the
start. He'd set himself up as a pharaoh over there. Done what all the
Forsaken should have done from the start. It was fucking golden.
Of course, I never thought this would stop the Taimandretards from
crying and pissing and moaning like bitches with skinned knees. That's
just not in their characters.
Yes, it's bonkers that only Demandred did anything like what the
Forsaken should have done...but well, I guess perhaps the others were
doing it in a crowded set of countries, but it does seem odd.
Tear, Illian, and Andor were taken over by Forsakens.
Chucky @ Work
2013-03-04 13:01:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by TB
Post by Contro
Yes, it's bonkers that only Demandred did anything like what the
Forsaken should have done...but well, I guess perhaps the others were
doing it in a crowded set of countries, but it does seem odd.
Tear, Illian, and Andor were taken over by Forsakens.
And Seanchan, at least as far as the Imperial family being slaughtered
and the whole nation being thrown into chaos so only the Return were
left intact. Props to Semirhage (I think) for that one.



- ***@w
--
13 of 12, the CMM Collective
CHOW:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/chow-a-dance-with-dragons/
Give a hoot, read my book:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/arsebook-my-rear-in-status-2011/
Contro
2013-03-04 20:04:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by TB
Post by Contro
Post by Chucky @ Work
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 03:59:36 +0100, Tayshon M. Andred
Post by Tayshon M. Andred
Sorry but Demandred fucking about in Shara wasn't adequately epic enough
to account for his concealment for ten billion novels. Then Taim
coincidentally becomes Chosen? Pshaw. Demandred was obviously supposed
to be Taim from the start, and Jordan changed it because readers figured
it out.
Demandred in Shara was the final proof (if any was needed for those
who said he wasn't Taim all along, what, did they just make it up and
have no evidence or something?) that Taim was never Demandred. He
wasn't in the Black Tower, his work in the east was Shara from the
start. He'd set himself up as a pharaoh over there. Done what all the
Forsaken should have done from the start. It was fucking golden.
Of course, I never thought this would stop the Taimandretards from
crying and pissing and moaning like bitches with skinned knees. That's
just not in their characters.
Yes, it's bonkers that only Demandred did anything like what the
Forsaken should have done...but well, I guess perhaps the others were
doing it in a crowded set of countries, but it does seem odd.
Tear, Illian, and Andor were taken over by Forsakens.
True, I guess on paper they made the effort, but you can't help but feel
they were pretty useless at the whole affair, all in all.
--
Contro.
Chucky @ Work
2013-03-05 06:04:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Contro
Post by TB
Post by Contro
Yes, it's bonkers that only Demandred did anything like what the
Forsaken should have done...but well, I guess perhaps the others were
doing it in a crowded set of countries, but it does seem odd.
Tear, Illian, and Andor were taken over by Forsakens.
True, I guess on paper they made the effort, but you can't help but feel
they were pretty useless at the whole affair, all in all.
They had 100% of the PCs gunning for them in the main arena, while
nobody was paying any attention to Demandred over in NPC Land.


- ***@w
--
13 of 12, the CMM Collective
CHOW:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/chow-a-dance-with-dragons/
Give a hoot, read my book:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/arsebook-my-rear-in-status-2011/
TB
2013-03-04 06:07:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky @ Work
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 03:59:36 +0100, Tayshon M. Andred
Post by Tayshon M. Andred
Sorry but Demandred fucking about in Shara wasn't adequately epic enough
to account for his concealment for ten billion novels.  Then Taim
coincidentally becomes Chosen?  Pshaw.  Demandred was obviously supposed
to be Taim from the start, and Jordan changed it because readers figured
it out.
Demandred in Shara was the final proof (if any was needed for those
who said he wasn't Taim all along, what, did they just make it up and
have no evidence or something?) that Taim was never Demandred. He
wasn't in the Black Tower, his work in the east was Shara from the
start. He'd set himself up as a pharaoh over there. Done what all the
Forsaken should have done from the start. It was fucking golden.
Other Forsakens also took over nations: Tear, Illian, and Andor.
Chucky @ Work
2013-03-04 13:02:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by TB
Post by Chucky @ Work
Post by Tayshon M. Andred
Sorry but Demandred fucking about in Shara wasn't adequately epic enough
to account for his concealment for ten billion novels.  Then Taim
coincidentally becomes Chosen?  Pshaw.  Demandred was obviously supposed
to be Taim from the start, and Jordan changed it because readers figured
it out.
Demandred in Shara was the final proof (if any was needed for those
who said he wasn't Taim all along, what, did they just make it up and
have no evidence or something?) that Taim was never Demandred. He
wasn't in the Black Tower, his work in the east was Shara from the
start. He'd set himself up as a pharaoh over there. Done what all the
Forsaken should have done from the start. It was fucking golden.
Other Forsakens also took over nations: Tear, Illian, and Andor.
True. Demandred just did it way better, and without anyone else paying
attention to Shara, he got away with more.



- ***@w
--
13 of 12, the CMM Collective
CHOW:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/chow-a-dance-with-dragons/
Give a hoot, read my book:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/arsebook-my-rear-in-status-2011/
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