Healing Severing Theory

[yhooders]

Hey All!

I had an idea as to what might be the reason why stilling can be healed
fully by the opposite sex, and only partially by a channeler of the
same sex.

Every channeler has a connection to the one power. This connection can
be envisioned as a tube or pipe made out of woven Saidin/Saidar. When a
person is severed, the entire tube snaps off. When a channeler tries to
rebridge the gap, they do it only with one half of the power.

Now here's where it gets complex. Whichever half of the source the
person being healed can channel has an attraction to the person, and
its natural state is to try to connect to the person. When a person is
severed it can no longer connect to the person because the channel is
no longer there; something is blocking it.

When someone is healed with the opposite half of the power, the
channeler forces the half that is not attracted to connect to the
person. When this is happening, the half that is attracted get pulled
along becasue of its natural attraction, and the bridge is comleted
using both halves of the power.

When the healing is done using the power that is already attracted,
there is nothing to bring the other half into the connection, and it is
built as a weaker smaller connection made of only one half of the
power.

Let me know what you think...

[Lorfarius]

Post by yhooders
Hey All!
I had an idea as to what might be the reason why stilling can be healed
fully by the opposite sex, and only partially by a channeler of the
same sex.
Every channeler has a connection to the one power. This connection can
be envisioned as a tube or pipe made out of woven Saidin/Saidar. When a
person is severed, the entire tube snaps off. When a channeler tries to
rebridge the gap, they do it only with one half of the power.

Cant remember exactly but cant the channeler still sense the power but just
cant access it?

[Tom Kelsall]

On 19 Aug 2005 10:20:53 -0700, the keys started rattling, and

Post by yhooders
Hey All!
I had an idea as to what might be the reason why stilling can be healed
fully by the opposite sex, and only partially by a channeler of the
same sex.
Every channeler has a connection to the one power. This connection can
be envisioned as a tube or pipe made out of woven Saidin/Saidar. When a
person is severed, the entire tube snaps off. When a channeler tries to
rebridge the gap, they do it only with one half of the power.
Now here's where it gets complex. Whichever half of the source the
person being healed can channel has an attraction to the person, and
its natural state is to try to connect to the person. When a person is
severed it can no longer connect to the person because the channel is
no longer there; something is blocking it.
When someone is healed with the opposite half of the power, the
channeler forces the half that is not attracted to connect to the
person. When this is happening, the half that is attracted get pulled
along becasue of its natural attraction, and the bridge is comleted
using both halves of the power.
When the healing is done using the power that is already attracted,
there is nothing to bring the other half into the connection, and it is
built as a weaker smaller connection made of only one half of the
power.
Let me know what you think...

I was thinking about this before. What if (á la Shadar Logoth) the
"tube" is made of the half that the channeller cannot use? So for
women, the "tube" is made of Saidin, and for men, Saidar. Severing,
as you said, cuts the tube; if a woman heals a woman, she can only
make the mend with Saidar, which connects poorly to the rest of the
Saidin tube... but if she heals a man, she weaves the missing bits of
Saidar to re-make the tube as it was before...

That's what *I* think.

[steveo]

Post by Tom Kelsall
On 19 Aug 2005 10:20:53 -0700, the keys started rattling, and

Post by yhooders
Hey All!
I had an idea as to what might be the reason why stilling can be healed
fully by the opposite sex, and only partially by a channeler of the
same sex.
Every channeler has a connection to the one power. This connection can
be envisioned as a tube or pipe made out of woven Saidin/Saidar. When a
person is severed, the entire tube snaps off. When a channeler tries to
rebridge the gap, they do it only with one half of the power.
Now here's where it gets complex. Whichever half of the source the
person being healed can channel has an attraction to the person, and
its natural state is to try to connect to the person. When a person is
severed it can no longer connect to the person because the channel is
no longer there; something is blocking it.
When someone is healed with the opposite half of the power, the
channeler forces the half that is not attracted to connect to the
person. When this is happening, the half that is attracted get pulled
along becasue of its natural attraction, and the bridge is comleted
using both halves of the power.
When the healing is done using the power that is already attracted,
there is nothing to bring the other half into the connection, and it is
built as a weaker smaller connection made of only one half of the
power.
Let me know what you think...

I was thinking about this before. What if (á la Shadar Logoth) the
"tube" is made of the half that the channeller cannot use? So for
women, the "tube" is made of Saidin, and for men, Saidar. Severing,
as you said, cuts the tube; if a woman heals a woman, she can only
make the mend with Saidar, which connects poorly to the rest of the
Saidin tube... but if she heals a man, she weaves the missing bits of
Saidar to re-make the tube as it was before...
That's what *I* think.

Hmmm... brings up some interesting possibilities with regards to the TP.
And the black tendrils that provided protection from the taint for the
Chosen.

I wonder if this was something that RJ has really fleshed out BEFORE writing
it, or if he will end up having to do a little dodging because his writing
is driving the story rather than his ideas/plot outline. This has happened
before (e.g. BA communication system).

For some reason this concept resonates in me with the old (and now
author-debunked theory about Saidin being tainted because it was touching
the DO via the Seals).

steveo

[Tim Bruening]

Post by steveo

Post by Tom Kelsall
On 19 Aug 2005 10:20:53 -0700, the keys started rattling, and

Post by yhooders
Hey All!
I had an idea as to what might be the reason why stilling can be healed
fully by the opposite sex, and only partially by a channeler of the
same sex.
Every channeler has a connection to the one power. This connection can
be envisioned as a tube or pipe made out of woven Saidin/Saidar. When a
person is severed, the entire tube snaps off. When a channeler tries to
rebridge the gap, they do it only with one half of the power.
Now here's where it gets complex. Whichever half of the source the
person being healed can channel has an attraction to the person, and
its natural state is to try to connect to the person. When a person is
severed it can no longer connect to the person because the channel is
no longer there; something is blocking it.
When someone is healed with the opposite half of the power, the
channeler forces the half that is not attracted to connect to the
person. When this is happening, the half that is attracted get pulled
along becasue of its natural attraction, and the bridge is comleted
using both halves of the power.
When the healing is done using the power that is already attracted,
there is nothing to bring the other half into the connection, and it is
built as a weaker smaller connection made of only one half of the
power.
Let me know what you think...

I was thinking about this before. What if (á la Shadar Logoth) the
"tube" is made of the half that the channeller cannot use? So for
women, the "tube" is made of Saidin, and for men, Saidar. Severing,
as you said, cuts the tube; if a woman heals a woman, she can only
make the mend with Saidar, which connects poorly to the rest of the
Saidin tube... but if she heals a man, she weaves the missing bits of
Saidar to re-make the tube as it was before...
That's what *I* think.

Hmmm... brings up some interesting possibilities with regards to the TP.
And the black tendrils that provided protection from the taint for the
Chosen.
I wonder if this was something that RJ has really fleshed out BEFORE writing
it, or if he will end up having to do a little dodging because his writing
is driving the story rather than his ideas/plot outline. This has happened
before (e.g. BA communication system).
For some reason this concept resonates in me with the old (and now
author-debunked theory about Saidin being tainted because it was touching
the DO via the Seals).

In tGS, LTT says that he and his Companions touched saidin to the DO in order to
seal the Bore. I assumed that this is what allowed the DO to taint saidin.

[Alexander Johansen]

Post by yhooders
Hey All!
I had an idea as to what might be the reason why stilling can be healed
fully by the opposite sex, and only partially by a channeler of the
same sex.
Every channeler has a connection to the one power. This connection can
be envisioned as a tube or pipe made out of woven Saidin/Saidar. When a
person is severed, the entire tube snaps off. When a channeler tries to
rebridge the gap, they do it only with one half of the power.
Now here's where it gets complex. Whichever half of the source the
person being healed can channel has an attraction to the person, and
its natural state is to try to connect to the person. When a person is
severed it can no longer connect to the person because the channel is
no longer there; something is blocking it.
When someone is healed with the opposite half of the power, the
channeler forces the half that is not attracted to connect to the
person. When this is happening, the half that is attracted get pulled
along becasue of its natural attraction, and the bridge is comleted
using both halves of the power.
When the healing is done using the power that is already attracted,
there is nothing to bring the other half into the connection, and it is
built as a weaker smaller connection made of only one half of the
power.
Let me know what you think...

Actually during my current re-read I thought of something else entirely
(Sorry no refs right now, its been a little while since I was actually in
the book)

Nyn thinks about Mog's inability to tell her about healing, but that she
keeps digging "she must know something, even if she doesnt know she knows"
or somesuch. Nyn thinks that Mog said that _Men had been better healing some
things than women_ which Nyn of course thinks must be rubish right away,
since everyone knows that women are better at healing(!).

This is dropped shortly before Nyn heals Logain, it sounds to much like
foreshadowing to me, I dont seem to remember a Logain POV where he muses
over his current power level compared to his previous, and no-one we know
has any idea. Further when Nyn heals Logain she is absorbed in fury about
everything and thrashes blindly with the weaves, while she is calm
(relatively for Nyn) when she heals Siuan and Leane and tries to recreate
what she has done. She did this once or twice before (being better when she
wasnt thinking) back when she healed the Aiel woman on the riverbank back in
TDR, and again when she healed El or Eg (dont remember which) after they
were taken by the brigands.

[BClubb]

Post by yhooders
Hey All!
I had an idea as to what might be the reason why stilling can be
healed fully by the opposite sex, and only partially by a channeler of
the same sex.

Actually, I'm not sure that this is true. As far as I know, the only
half-power repair is the one done on Siuan and Leane by Nyneave. The
others are full-power repairs on Logain by Nyneave and the severed Aes
Sedai by the Black Tower channeler. That they are healed by a channeler
of the opposite sex is simply coincidental.

When Nyn is working on Logain, she does her research over weeks and
vaguely senses something that is missing and replaces it. When she
heals Siuan and Leane she doesn't bother to check first and sense the
different structure that allows women to channel. She just goes ahead
and repeats the same operation installing the male structure in the new
patients. It isn't so much that the healing can only be done by the
opposite sex as it is that slip-shod research gives poor results.

What I'm curious about is why the Age of Legend healing circles
containing both men and women never discovered how to heal this? What
is it that Nyn does that they never could have thought of?

Bruce

[steveo]

<snip>

Post by BClubb
What I'm curious about is why the Age of Legend healing circles
containing both men and women never discovered how to heal this? What
is it that Nyn does that they never could have thought of?

The thing she does is focus on it. I'd guess that the AoL AS had similar
attitudes about stilled/burnt people as the modern day AS have. Also, the
AS in the AoL didn't have being an AS as their job--they also did other,
meaningful things, so the personal tragedy of losing the ability to channel
was probably viewed like a work-place accident like losing a limb is today:
a tragedy, sure, but not the end of your life.

One thing more: Nyneave is notorious for being stubborn. People who are
'too stupid' to give up on a problem that can't be solved are often the ones
who solve those very same problems.

steveo

Post by BClubb
Bruce

[David Chapman]

[...] the
AS in the AoL didn't have being an AS as their job--they also did other,
meaningful things, so the personal tragedy of losing the ability to
channel was probably viewed like a work-place accident like losing a limb
is today: a tragedy, sure, but not the end of your life.

Except it *is* the end of your life, doofus. People severed from the One
Power fade away in a matter of years.

[steveo]

Post by David Chapman

[...] the
AS in the AoL didn't have being an AS as their job--they also did other,
meaningful things, so the personal tragedy of losing the ability to
channel was probably viewed like a work-place accident like losing a limb
is today: a tragedy, sure, but not the end of your life.

Except it *is* the end of your life, doofus. People severed from the One
Power fade away in a matter of years.

Well, you stupid twit, I guess that means that Setalle Anan is a fucking
ghost that had little ghost babies, then, huh?

What a weird plot device...

steveo

[David Chapman]

Post by steveo

Post by David Chapman

[...] the
AS in the AoL didn't have being an AS as their job--they also did other,
meaningful things, so the personal tragedy of losing the ability to
channel was probably viewed like a work-place accident like losing a
limb is today: a tragedy, sure, but not the end of your life.

Except it *is* the end of your life, doofus. People severed from the One
Power fade away in a matter of years.

Well, you stupid twit, I guess that means that Setalle Anan is a fucking
ghost that had little ghost babies, then, huh?

The only way to survive severing is to find something else to fill your life
and take your mind off it. You can't take your mind off what you used to do
when you're surrounded by it every day, which is part of why the White Tower
sends severed women away instead of keeping them where they can be taken
care of.

Also, if you'd actually bothered to read the section of the Book of Bad Art
you derived your original argument from in full - or at least, past the one
paragraph that means what you want it to - you would have noticed that the
AOL Aes Sedai were not so common that they could be spared to perform tasks
that didn't require the Power. If you could channel in the AOL, your job
*would* be to work with the Power on a daily basis. Worse, the use of the
Power was so widespread in the AOL that unlike New Era Randland, there
wouldn't be anywhere you could go that it wasn't in your face all the time.

But what you suggest *is* in one sense true; someone losing the ability to
channel in the AOL *would* be like someone losing a leg today - if the
person in question was a professional athlete.

[steveo]

Post by David Chapman

Post by steveo

Post by David Chapman

[...] the
AS in the AoL didn't have being an AS as their job--they also did other,
meaningful things, so the personal tragedy of losing the ability to
channel was probably viewed like a work-place accident like losing a
limb is today: a tragedy, sure, but not the end of your life.

Except it *is* the end of your life, doofus. People severed from the One
Power fade away in a matter of years.

Well, you stupid twit, I guess that means that Setalle Anan is a fucking
ghost that had little ghost babies, then, huh?

The only way to survive severing is to find something else to fill your
life and take your mind off it. You can't take your mind off what you
used to do when you're surrounded by it every day, which is part of why
the White Tower sends severed women away instead of keeping them where
they can be taken care of.
Also, if you'd actually bothered to read the section of the Book of Bad
Art you derived your original argument from in full - or at least, past
the one paragraph that means what you want it to - you would have noticed
that the AOL Aes Sedai were not so common that they could be spared to
perform tasks that didn't require the Power. If you could channel in the
AOL, your job *would* be to work with the Power on a daily basis. Worse,
the use of the Power was so widespread in the AOL that unlike New Era
Randland, there wouldn't be anywhere you could go that it wasn't in your
face all the time.
But what you suggest *is* in one sense true; someone losing the ability to
channel in the AOL *would* be like someone losing a leg today - if the
person in question was a professional athlete.

I am pleased that we have returned to cordiality.

I am actually not familiar with the "Book of Bad Art." Is this a section of
the FAQ I have missed? I guess I will have to go check after posting...

Hmm, while I see the logic in trying to avoid the OP if you were a severed
channeler, I would think that eventually you do need to be around it and be
ok with not being able to channel anymore. For example, this is what truly
being a "former" alcoholic is all about--being able to be at a dinner and
have your friends drink wine and you not freak out about it.

Perhaps the OP was much more prevalent in the AoL, but I got the sense (from
TSR and the encyclopedia specifically) that it wasn't the main goal, but
rather what you could do with it. That being the case, it would seem that a
scientist who got severed could still do their job, but would need to use
regular tools instead of the OP. Kind of like Sherlock Holmes versus CSI,
true, but in a sense it could be even more rewarding for having discovered
things through your own mind. We consider Newton a genius for inventing
Calculus, while we think of the TI-89 as just a simple tool and not a marvel
of mathematics and engineering that does the math far more quickly than we
ever could.

At least, the above could be the rationalization that a severed AoL
channeler could make!

And, yes, your extrapolation (athlete) of my initial analogy is much truer.
Good job!

steveo

[Tom Kelsall]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 22:48:46 -0700, the keys started rattling, and

Post by steveo
Hmm, while I see the logic in trying to avoid the OP if you were a severed
channeler, I would think that eventually you do need to be around it and be
ok with not being able to channel anymore. For example, this is what truly
being a "former" alcoholic is all about--being able to be at a dinner and
have your friends drink wine and you not freak out about it.

I was always given to understand that "Recovering Alcoholic" was as
good as it got; that there was no such thing as a "former alcoholic".
At least, that's what the several alcoholics and recovering alcoholics
I've come into contact with through my life have said. They say that
you can never relax and have "just one" - that once an alcoholic,
always an alcoholic.

This was also the impression I got about severed channelers - most
people could not relax ever having been severed; that they would never
come to an accomodation with their new status. Only a very few,
(Siuan, Leane) find a new focus which allows them to continue a
"normal" life.

[steveo]

Post by Tom Kelsall
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 22:48:46 -0700, the keys started rattling, and

Post by steveo
Hmm, while I see the logic in trying to avoid the OP if you were a severed
channeler, I would think that eventually you do need to be around it and be
ok with not being able to channel anymore. For example, this is what truly
being a "former" alcoholic is all about--being able to be at a dinner and
have your friends drink wine and you not freak out about it.

I was always given to understand that "Recovering Alcoholic" was as
good as it got; that there was no such thing as a "former alcoholic".

You are correct--I misspoke.

Does not change the point, however, except the severed channeler could not
ever 'drink' again--at least, until now. How much a crueler punishment it
would be to sever a channeler, given that said channeler would now know that
they _could_ channel again, if only they could be Healed.

Post by Tom Kelsall
This was also the impression I got about severed channelers - most
people could not relax ever having been severed; that they would never
come to an accomodation with their new status. Only a very few,
(Siuan, Leane) find a new focus which allows them to continue a
"normal" life.

Yes, but that is because AS is what the modern day AS are. They aren't
scientists and engineers, etc. who have special skills and are part of an
elite fraternity.

steveo

[Dan Weiner]

Post by steveo
Does not change the point, however, except the severed channeler could not
ever 'drink' again--at least, until now. How much a crueler punishment it
would be to sever a channeler, given that said channeler would now know that
they _could_ channel again, if only they could be Healed.

I don't know about this whole "false hope = cruel punishment" thing:
because there *IS* hope, however tiny, the punishment would be bearable,
IMO. Didn't make a whole lot of sense when Moggy pulled it on Liandrin,
and I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense here. But that's just
my opinion. :\

Post by steveo
*snip*
Yes, but that is because AS is what the modern day AS are. They aren't
scientists and engineers, etc. who have special skills and are part of an
elite fraternity.

Surely you mean "an elite sorority". :) But I agree.

[David Chapman]

Post by steveo
I am actually not familiar with the "Book of Bad Art." Is this a section
of the FAQ I have missed? I guess I will have to go check after
posting...

It's better known as The World of RJ's WOT.

Post by steveo
Hmm, while I see the logic in trying to avoid the OP if you were a severed
channeler, I would think that eventually you do need to be around it

I don't quite follow. Do you mean "you don't need to avoid it"?

and

Post by steveo
be ok with not being able to channel anymore.

Eventually, yes, but we're on a very long timescale here. It takes months,
often years to fade away after being severed.

Post by steveo
For example, this is what
truly being a "former" alcoholic is all about--being able to be at a
dinner and have your friends drink wine and you not freak out about it.

I don't think OP use can be compared fairly to alcoholism. The One Power is
more addictive than heroin and better than sex. Once you start using it,
you cannot stop and after a time will start using it involuntarily as a
reflex action. Whatever similarities there are, OP withdrawal is ten times
worse and lasts ten times longer.

Post by steveo
Perhaps the OP was much more prevalent in the AoL, but I got the sense
(from TSR and the encyclopedia specifically) that it wasn't the main
goal, but rather what you could do with it. That being the case, it
would seem that a scientist who got severed could still do their job, but
would need to use regular tools instead of the OP.

Whereas I got the impression that use of the OP was required. Remember, it
says that whole branches of science were made possible with the OP. Saying
that a scientist could do his job without it is - in many cases if not all -
like saying a computer programmer could get on with his work during a power
cut. There would still be things he could do on paper, yes, but he would be
incapable of performing the functions of his work.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by steveo

Post by David Chapman

[...] the
AS in the AoL didn't have being an AS as their job--they also did other,
meaningful things, so the personal tragedy of losing the ability to
channel was probably viewed like a work-place accident like losing a limb
is today: a tragedy, sure, but not the end of your life.

Except it *is* the end of your life, doofus. People severed from the One
Power fade away in a matter of years.

Well, you stupid twit, I guess that means that Setalle Anan is a fucking
ghost that had little ghost babies, then, huh?

Will Nynaeve Heal Setalle?

[yhooders]

It may be that the connection to the One Power is made of inverted
Saidin/Saidar. Therefore the weave was never noticed in the Age of
Legends. Nynaeve does not actually feel or see what the connection is;
she only stumbles on the cure from studying the cut. "Something about
that cut . . . If it was bridged with Fire and Spirit, so . . . " And
earlier "It was not really a hole, more a feeling that what seemed
continuous was not, that what seemed smooth and straight was really
skirting around an absence."

If inversion is the reason that the connection has never been seen, I
wonder is Suian or Leane's connection to the source is now noticeable
as a weave of Fire and Spirit? More likely the weaves are used to coax
the severed channeler's soul to reconnect to the True Source.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by yhooders
Hey All!
I had an idea as to what might be the reason why stilling can be healed
fully by the opposite sex, and only partially by a channeler of the
same sex.
Every channeler has a connection to the one power. This connection can
be envisioned as a tube or pipe made out of woven Saidin/Saidar. When a
person is severed, the entire tube snaps off. When a channeler tries to
rebridge the gap, they do it only with one half of the power.
Now here's where it gets complex. Whichever half of the source the
person being healed can channel has an attraction to the person, and
its natural state is to try to connect to the person. When a person is
severed it can no longer connect to the person because the channel is
no longer there; something is blocking it.
When someone is healed with the opposite half of the power, the
channeler forces the half that is not attracted to connect to the
person. When this is happening, the half that is attracted get pulled
along becasue of its natural attraction, and the bridge is comleted
using both halves of the power.
When the healing is done using the power that is already attracted,
there is nothing to bring the other half into the connection, and it is
built as a weaker smaller connection made of only one half of the
power.
Let me know what you think...

Could as Asha'man restore Siuan's full channeling ability as she is now, or
would she have to be re-Stilled?