Discussion:
Very pertinent question regarding Aes Sedai
(too old to reply)
ZMarc
2003-07-06 20:28:52 UTC
Permalink
If an Aes Sedai is channeling, and assuming she doesn't know Graendal
and Mesaana's trick, would she appear, to other female channelers, to
glow in the dark?

Seems like that would really suck.

Marc
Michael Hoye
2003-07-07 01:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by ZMarc
If an Aes Sedai is channeling, and assuming she doesn't know Graendal
and Mesaana's trick, would she appear, to other female channelers, to
glow in the dark?
Yup. And those who _can_ channel, whether or not they acutally are
channelling, can be sensed at close range. Not only that, but Aes
Sedai are completely accustomed to that effect. So those people who
can hide their channelling can fly in completely under the radar.
Post by ZMarc
Seems like that would really suck.
Yes, yes it does. And it completely undermines the whole story, if
you think about it a little.
--
Mike Hoye
jlinos
2003-07-07 02:07:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Hoye
Post by ZMarc
If an Aes Sedai is channeling, and assuming she doesn't know Graendal
and Mesaana's trick, would she appear, to other female channelers, to
glow in the dark?
Yup. And those who _can_ channel, whether or not they acutally are
channelling, can be sensed at close range. Not only that, but Aes
Sedai are completely accustomed to that effect. So those people who
can hide their channelling can fly in completely under the radar.
Post by ZMarc
Seems like that would really suck.
Yes, yes it does. And it completely undermines the whole story, if
you think about it a little.
I personally disagree inverted OP is something that fits in very well
with the use of the OP. In the begining I was kinda surprised that we
had not seen it more in use , but as it appears its another of those
Lost Talents . Rand made good use of that to hide in the sun palace
the keys to use the sangreal if you remember , otherwise any Forsaken
would have been able to find his little cubbyhole he had made. Of
course it sucks for the ones that dont know how to invert but overall
it lets JR do things that otherwise would be impossible.
Frederick Hurley
2003-07-07 05:22:23 UTC
Permalink
Yes, yes it does. And it completely undermines the whole story, if you think
about it a little.
Shh! ;-)

Sorry, couldn't resist...
C Marshall
2003-07-07 12:10:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Hoye
Post by ZMarc
If an Aes Sedai is channeling, and assuming she doesn't know Graendal
and Mesaana's trick, would she appear, to other female channelers, to
glow in the dark?
Yup. And those who _can_ channel, whether or not they acutally are
channelling, can be sensed at close range. Not only that, but Aes
Sedai are completely accustomed to that effect. So those people who
can hide their channelling can fly in completely under the radar.
Post by ZMarc
Seems like that would really suck.
Yes, yes it does. And it completely undermines the whole story, if
you think about it a little.
Please elaborate
Agthorr
2003-07-07 21:02:21 UTC
Permalink
Because Forsaken can walk right up to unsuspecting Aes Sedai and
compel the tar out of them, there has been absolutely no reason for
the Forsaken not to have the White Tower, or in fact every other
royal House or other contender, completely under their thumbs from
long before the Dragon reappeared.
Well, there is that whole problem of the Forsaken being locked in
Shayol Ghul up until around the time the Dragon appeared. Ishmael was
at least partially out and about; the Trolloc Wars were his attempt at
world domination, but they failed. One channeler who cannot be
detected (and no Aes Sedai can simply feel Ishmael channeling) is not
enough to compel the White Tower around. So, he made sure to have a
host of supporters in every land and government.

The Forsaken's recent strategy seems targeted at avoiding open
conflict; they want to have everyone under their thumbs without anyone
noticing.
And if what we've seen from Verin, which I interpreted to be
basically a post-compulsion suggestion, there's also no reason for
any of Our Heroes to still be alive - capture some anonymous maid, or
spear sister, compel her to poison or shiv the Dragon, or whatever,
and there we go.
Well, every time they try something like that, our heroes
miraculously ta'varen themselves out of trouble ;)
The only possible justification for this storyline is either that
Rand has to make some kind of a decision in favor of the Dark One,
and that killing him won't on its own earn the Dark One a victory,
or just the usual bungling ineptitude of the Forsaken.
There's a lot of evidence to suggest that the Dark One prefers Rand
alive. They $50,000 question is "Why?"

-- Agthorr
MT
2003-07-08 07:12:48 UTC
Permalink
Because Forsaken can walk right up to unsuspecting Aes Sedai and
compel the tar out of them, there has been absolutely no reason for
the Forsaken not to have the White Tower, or in fact every other
royal House or other contender, completely under their thumbs from
long before the Dragon reappeared.
Except thst they've only been out of SG for a few years, if that. And
what have they done in that time? Be'lal became a High Lord of Tear,
Rahvin took control of Queen Morgase and Andor, Sammael ruled Illian,
Messana integrated herself into the White Tower, and Semirhage has
control over one of the royal Seanchen. What more would you have them
do?
And if what we've seen from Verin, which I interpreted to be
basically a post-compulsion suggestion, there's also no reason for
any of Our Heroes to still be alive - capture some anonymous maid, or
spear sister, compel her to poison or shiv the Dragon, or whatever,
and there we go.
As for killing Rand: Aginor and Balthamel fought him outright, Ishamael
tries to subvert him then fights him outright, Lanfear tries to subvert
him, and he has about forty darkfriends attempt to kill him, Mat, and
Perrin in the first three books. Apparently he's good at what he does
and not-surprisingly lucky.
The only possible justification for this storyline is either that
Rand has to make some kind of a decision in favor of the Dark One,
and that killing him won't on its own earn the Dark One a victory,
or just the usual bungling ineptitude of the Forsaken.
Or Rand kicks ass. Everyone knows Rand is to be the end-all-be-all of
kick-assers, so they try and get him on their side (during other
turnings, Rand did join the Dark One), so they try that first. Then
after a lot of failed assination attempts, the DO said no one is to kill
him.
Tim Bruening
2010-04-17 14:41:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by MT
Because Forsaken can walk right up to unsuspecting Aes Sedai and
compel the tar out of them, there has been absolutely no reason for
the Forsaken not to have the White Tower, or in fact every other
royal House or other contender, completely under their thumbs from
long before the Dragon reappeared.
Except thst they've only been out of SG for a few years, if that. And
what have they done in that time? Be'lal became a High Lord of Tear,
Rahvin took control of Queen Morgase and Andor, Sammael ruled Illian,
Messana integrated herself into the White Tower, and Semirhage has
control over one of the royal Seanchen. What more would you have them
do?
And if what we've seen from Verin, which I interpreted to be
basically a post-compulsion suggestion, there's also no reason for
any of Our Heroes to still be alive - capture some anonymous maid, or
spear sister, compel her to poison or shiv the Dragon, or whatever,
and there we go.
As for killing Rand: Aginor and Balthamel fought him outright, Ishamael
tries to subvert him then fights him outright, Lanfear tries to subvert
him, and he has about forty darkfriends attempt to kill him, Mat, and
Perrin in the first three books. Apparently he's good at what he does
and not-surprisingly lucky.
The only possible justification for this storyline is either that
Rand has to make some kind of a decision in favor of the Dark One,
and that killing him won't on its own earn the Dark One a victory,
or just the usual bungling ineptitude of the Forsaken.
Or Rand kicks ass. Everyone knows Rand is to be the end-all-be-all of
kick-assers, so they try and get him on their side (during other
turnings, Rand did join the Dark One), so they try that first. Then
after a lot of failed assination attempts, the DO said no one is to kill
him.
During the turnings in which the Dragon joined the Dark One, how did the
world survive? Its my understanding that the DO seeks to destroy the entire
universe!

keetus
2003-07-14 23:53:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by ZMarc
If an Aes Sedai is channeling, and assuming she doesn't know Graendal
and Mesaana's trick, would she appear, to other female channelers, to
glow in the dark?
Seems like that would really suck.
Marc
Yeah, and would it be bright enough to, say, read a book by? Is it a
real glow (see in the dark-able) or just in their minds...?
I've always wondered myself...
Scott M-D
2003-07-15 14:51:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by keetus
Post by ZMarc
If an Aes Sedai is channeling, and assuming she doesn't know Graendal
and Mesaana's trick, would she appear, to other female channelers, to
glow in the dark?
Seems like that would really suck.
Marc
Yeah, and would it be bright enough to, say, read a book by? Is it a
real glow (see in the dark-able) or just in their minds...?
I've always wondered myself...
I'd be interested to hear everyone's thoughts on the various ways the
Forsaken can apparently hide what they are doing. Asmo teaches Rand to
invert his weaves, and Moghedien (IIRC) teaches Nynaeve and Elayne (Eg.
too?). Inverting is simply tying off a weave such that a channeler can't
see what you did.

Reversing was something new that appeared in WH, where Demandred, Cyndane,
and perhaps some others apparently make an active (not tied off) weave
invisible.

Nowhere in there does there seem to be a way for a channeler to hide the
actual channeling, though. The only evidence for that seems to be Mesaana
with Alviarin, who can't feel Mesaana channeling despite a gateway being
opened. If it were possible to hide channeling altogether, why don't we see
more of it in Ch. 35 of WH? Verin feels Graendal channeling, and Flinn
apparently feels Demandred.

If there actually is a way to hide the act of channeling, it might explain
why no one felt Asmo being killed (not to open that can o' worms.)

SD
Tim Bruening
2010-04-17 14:36:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by ZMarc
If an Aes Sedai is channeling, and assuming she doesn't know Graendal
and Mesaana's trick, would she appear, to other female channelers, to
glow in the dark?
Seems like that would really suck.
What's so bad about that?
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