On Prophecies and Mat and Perrin [KoD spoilers]

[Donald S. Crankshaw]

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Up until CoT, we assumed that there was no mention of Mat or Perrin in
the Prophecies of the Dragon. After all, we had it on good authority,
from Moiraine's point of view in tSR, Chapter 21: "Moiraine had not
believed it herself, at first, had not seen it. Three _ta'veren_, all
the same age, coming out of one village; she must have been blind not to
realize they had to be connected. Everything had become much more
complicated with that knowledge. Like trying to juggle three of Thom's
colored balls one-handed and blindfolded; she had seen Thom do that, but
she would not want to try. There was no guide to show how they were
connected, or what they were supposed to do; the Prophecies never
mentioned companions."

However, in the last two books, two passages from the Prophecies have
appeared which refer specifically to Mat and Perrin. The first, quoted
by Noal Charin in Chapter 26 of CoT:

Fortune rides like the sun on high
with the fox who makes the ravens fly.
Luck his soul, lightning his eye,
He snatches the moons from out of the sky.

This passage obviously refers to Mat. Then there's the prophecy Tylee
quoted in KoD, Chapter 4: "When the Wolf King carries the hammer, thus
are the final days known. When the fox marries the raven, and the
trumpets of battle are blown."

So how do we reconcile Moiraine's belief that there's no mention of
Perrin or Mat with these startlingly clear references? Well, there are
a few ways:

1. A misstep by Jordan. After all, tSR was seven books ago. The
easiest way, but not very satisfying.

2. Moiraine knew of the references, but didn't make the connection to
Mat and Perrin. This I buy in Mat's case, as there was nothing to link
him to foxes or ravens before the second doorway ter'angreal, where he
received the fox amulet and the raven-marked spear. As for the luck, I
don't recall _any_ Aes Sedai paying much attention to Mat's luck, even
Moiraine. He's lucky that way. But Perrin? A blacksmith who talks
with wolves should set off alarm bells in anyone familiar with a
prophecy involving a Wolf King with a hammer.

3. Moiraine didn't know of the references. Consider who's relaying
those prophecies to the heroes. The Seanchan, whose Prophecies of the
Dragon we _know_ to be different, told Perrin about the "Wolf King" one.
We had considered those differences corruptions and mistakes, but this
bit comes too close to the truth. If it's one of the places where it
differs from the known prophecies, then maybe those differences aren't
so corrupted after all. As for the fox bit that Noal cites, well, it is
Noal. Even if he's not Jain Farstrider (and I wouldn't bet on it), he's
very well travelled, and as far as we know may have picked up that part
of the Prophecies in Shara or Tremalking.

I like option number three the best.

-Donald S. Crankshaw

[Ash]

Post by Donald S. Crankshaw
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Up until CoT, we assumed that there was no mention of Mat or Perrin in
the Prophecies of the Dragon. After all, we had it on good authority,
from Moiraine's point of view in tSR, Chapter 21: "Moiraine had not
believed it herself, at first, had not seen it. Three _ta'veren_, all
the same age, coming out of one village; she must have been blind not to
realize they had to be connected. Everything had become much more
complicated with that knowledge. Like trying to juggle three of Thom's
colored balls one-handed and blindfolded; she had seen Thom do that, but
she would not want to try. There was no guide to show how they were
connected, or what they were supposed to do; the Prophecies never
mentioned companions."
However, in the last two books, two passages from the Prophecies have
appeared which refer specifically to Mat and Perrin. The first, quoted
Fortune rides like the sun on high
with the fox who makes the ravens fly.
Luck his soul, lightning his eye,
He snatches the moons from out of the sky.
This passage obviously refers to Mat. Then there's the prophecy Tylee
quoted in KoD, Chapter 4: "When the Wolf King carries the hammer, thus
are the final days known. When the fox marries the raven, and the
trumpets of battle are blown."
So how do we reconcile Moiraine's belief that there's no mention of
Perrin or Mat with these startlingly clear references? Well, there are
1. A misstep by Jordan. After all, tSR was seven books ago. The
easiest way, but not very satisfying.
2. Moiraine knew of the references, but didn't make the connection to
Mat and Perrin. This I buy in Mat's case, as there was nothing to link
him to foxes or ravens before the second doorway ter'angreal, where he
received the fox amulet and the raven-marked spear. As for the luck, I
don't recall _any_ Aes Sedai paying much attention to Mat's luck, even
Moiraine. He's lucky that way. But Perrin? A blacksmith who talks
with wolves should set off alarm bells in anyone familiar with a
prophecy involving a Wolf King with a hammer.

Hence Verin's earlier statement to him asking when he is going to give
up his axe for his hammer

[Frederick Hurley]

Of course, this leads back to the whole, "Who the heck is Verin, and
just what IS her deal?" question.

Post by Ash

Post by Donald S. Crankshaw
2. Moiraine knew of the references, but didn't make the connection to
Mat and Perrin. This I buy in Mat's case, as there was nothing to link
him to foxes or ravens before the second doorway ter'angreal, where he
received the fox amulet and the raven-marked spear. As for the luck, I
don't recall _any_ Aes Sedai paying much attention to Mat's luck, even
Moiraine. He's lucky that way. But Perrin? A blacksmith who talks
with wolves should set off alarm bells in anyone familiar with a
prophecy involving a Wolf King with a hammer.

Hence Verin's earlier statement to him asking when he is going to give
up his axe for his hammer

[Rajiv Mote]

Post by Donald S. Crankshaw
T
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Up until CoT, we assumed that there was no mention of Mat or Perrin in
the Prophecies of the Dragon. After all, we had it on good authority,
from Moiraine's point of view in tSR, Chapter 21: "Moiraine had not
believed it herself, at first, had not seen it. Three _ta'veren_, all
the same age, coming out of one village; she must have been blind not to
realize they had to be connected. Everything had become much more
complicated with that knowledge. Like trying to juggle three of Thom's
colored balls one-handed and blindfolded; she had seen Thom do that, but
she would not want to try. There was no guide to show how they were
connected, or what they were supposed to do; the Prophecies never
mentioned companions."
However, in the last two books, two passages from the Prophecies have
appeared which refer specifically to Mat and Perrin. The first, quoted
Fortune rides like the sun on high
with the fox who makes the ravens fly.
Luck his soul, lightning his eye,
He snatches the moons from out of the sky.
This passage obviously refers to Mat. Then there's the prophecy Tylee
quoted in KoD, Chapter 4: "When the Wolf King carries the hammer, thus
are the final days known. When the fox marries the raven, and the
trumpets of battle are blown."
So how do we reconcile Moiraine's belief that there's no mention of
Perrin or Mat with these startlingly clear references? Well, there are

<SNIP>

Moiraine's sharp, but she has incorrectly interpreted the prophecies
before (leading the spears from the forsaken city, etc.).

Since we've only seen the Prophecies of the Dragon piecemeal, I'm
willing to grant that the Wolf King and the Fox aren't presented in a
way that makes it easy to conclude that they are the Dragon Reborn's
companions. Both are only signs of the end times, and Charin's passage
is ambiguous enough to mean anything -- it could even refer to Rand,
under some interpretations. (In New Spring, the Black Ajah was looking
for Lucky Guys, because channelers often seemed to have luck.)

-- Rajiv

[David Chapman]

Post by Donald S. Crankshaw
Up until CoT, we assumed that there was no mention of Mat or Perrin in
the Prophecies of the Dragon. After all, we had it on good authority,
from Moiraine's point of view in tSR, Chapter 21: "Moiraine had not
believed it herself, at first, had not seen it. Three _ta'veren_, all
the same age, coming out of one village; she must have been blind not to
realize they had to be connected. Everything had become much more
complicated with that knowledge. Like trying to juggle three of Thom's
colored balls one-handed and blindfolded; she had seen Thom do that, but
she would not want to try. There was no guide to show how they were
connected, or what they were supposed to do; the Prophecies never
mentioned companions."

I think everyone has simply assumed from the bit at the start of TGH that
all the things in the Prophecies of the Dragon are related to the Dragon
himself.

[BenM]

Post by Donald S. Crankshaw
T
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t
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p
o
i
l
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p
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.
Up until CoT, we assumed that there was no mention of Mat or Perrin in
the Prophecies of the Dragon. After all, we had it on good authority,
from Moiraine's point of view in tSR, Chapter 21: "Moiraine had not
believed it herself, at first, had not seen it. Three _ta'veren_, all
the same age, coming out of one village; she must have been blind not to
realize they had to be connected. Everything had become much more
complicated with that knowledge. Like trying to juggle three of Thom's
colored balls one-handed and blindfolded; she had seen Thom do that, but
she would not want to try. There was no guide to show how they were
connected, or what they were supposed to do; the Prophecies never
mentioned companions."
However, in the last two books, two passages from the Prophecies have
appeared which refer specifically to Mat and Perrin. The first, quoted
Fortune rides like the sun on high
with the fox who makes the ravens fly.
Luck his soul, lightning his eye,
He snatches the moons from out of the sky.
This passage obviously refers to Mat. Then there's the prophecy Tylee
quoted in KoD, Chapter 4: "When the Wolf King carries the hammer, thus
are the final days known. When the fox marries the raven, and the
trumpets of battle are blown."
So how do we reconcile Moiraine's belief that there's no mention of
Perrin or Mat with these startlingly clear references? Well, there are
1. A misstep by Jordan. After all, tSR was seven books ago. The
easiest way, but not very satisfying.
2. Moiraine knew of the references, but didn't make the connection to
Mat and Perrin. This I buy in Mat's case, as there was nothing to link
him to foxes or ravens before the second doorway ter'angreal, where he
received the fox amulet and the raven-marked spear. As for the luck, I
don't recall _any_ Aes Sedai paying much attention to Mat's luck, even
Moiraine. He's lucky that way. But Perrin? A blacksmith who talks
with wolves should set off alarm bells in anyone familiar with a
prophecy involving a Wolf King with a hammer.
3. Moiraine didn't know of the references. Consider who's relaying
those prophecies to the heroes. The Seanchan, whose Prophecies of the
Dragon we _know_ to be different, told Perrin about the "Wolf King" one.
We had considered those differences corruptions and mistakes, but this
bit comes too close to the truth. If it's one of the places where it
differs from the known prophecies, then maybe those differences aren't
so corrupted after all. As for the fox bit that Noal cites, well, it is
Noal. Even if he's not Jain Farstrider (and I wouldn't bet on it), he's
very well travelled, and as far as we know may have picked up that part
of the Prophecies in Shara or Tremalking.

<snip>

You're looking at this with 20/20 hindsight, as 3rd person-omniscient
(I'm not sure that's the right way to put it, but you know what I
mean). The fact of the matter is, Mat and Perrin were just starting on
the path to fulfilling their destinies. Moiraine had no way of
knowing, at first, that the prophecies had anything to do with them.

[Davian]

Post by BenM

Post by Donald S. Crankshaw
T
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i
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.
So how do we reconcile Moiraine's belief that there's no mention of
Perrin or Mat with these startlingly clear references? Well, there are
1. A misstep by Jordan. After all, tSR was seven books ago. The
easiest way, but not very satisfying.
2. Moiraine knew of the references, but didn't make the connection to
Mat and Perrin. This I buy in Mat's case, as there was nothing to link
him to foxes or ravens before the second doorway ter'angreal, where he
received the fox amulet and the raven-marked spear. As for the luck, I
don't recall _any_ Aes Sedai paying much attention to Mat's luck, even
Moiraine. He's lucky that way. But Perrin? A blacksmith who talks
with wolves should set off alarm bells in anyone familiar with a
prophecy involving a Wolf King with a hammer.
3. Moiraine didn't know of the references. Consider who's relaying
those prophecies to the heroes. The Seanchan, whose Prophecies of the
Dragon we _know_ to be different, told Perrin about the "Wolf King" one.
We had considered those differences corruptions and mistakes, but this
bit comes too close to the truth. If it's one of the places where it
differs from the known prophecies, then maybe those differences aren't
so corrupted after all. As for the fox bit that Noal cites, well, it is
Noal. Even if he's not Jain Farstrider (and I wouldn't bet on it), he's
very well travelled, and as far as we know may have picked up that part
of the Prophecies in Shara or Tremalking.

<snip>
You're looking at this with 20/20 hindsight, as 3rd person-omniscient
(I'm not sure that's the right way to put it, but you know what I
mean). The fact of the matter is, Mat and Perrin were just starting on
the path to fulfilling their destinies. Moiraine had no way of
knowing, at first, that the prophecies had anything to do with them.

For Mat's prophecy I agree with you. Nobody actually in the series would
have all the pieces to put that one together, if they were already focused on
finding ways to make the Prophecies all apply to Rand. You don't see what
you're not looking for. For this one I'd go with option 2 above. I think
it applies to Mat, but Moiraine didn't have enough information to figure that
out way back when.

But Moiraine knew Perrin was connected with wolves during Eye of the World,
and knows how truly rare it is. As much as she has studied the Prophecies,
then as soon as she decides Rand is the Dragon and not Perrin, she should be
able to figure out the rest. I like option 3 for this one. It's more than
possible that the prophecies in Randland proper could have become corrupted in
some small details, while the Seanchan ones held true. It's the only way
Moiraine's comment makes sense to me. (other than just saying Jordan screwed
up.)

[Duncan J Macdonald]

Post by Davian

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<snip all but the Spoiler Space>

Post by Davian
But Moiraine knew Perrin was connected with wolves during Eye of the World,
and knows how truly rare it is. As much as she has studied the Prophecies,
then as soon as she decides Rand is the Dragon and not Perrin, she should be
able to figure out the rest. I like option 3 for this one. It's more than
possible that the prophecies in Randland proper could have become corrupted in
some small details, while the Seanchan ones held true. It's the only way
Moiraine's comment makes sense to me. (other than just saying Jordan screwed
up.)

I seem to recall (and my mind is like a very rusty trap right now) that
Our Friend Ishamael had a hand in modifying the Prophecies back when he
convinced Artur Hawkwing to send out the expedition to Seanchan. This
all came from the BBoBA, and I'll have to wade back into that morass to
check. It would be very much in character for Ishamael to make several
different copies of the Cycle and have substantive differences between
them, just to cause more problems for those who try to recognize the
Dragon Reborn.

So, "Bind the Nine Moons" is in Randland's version, and "Kneel to the
Crystal Throne" is in theirs. They have a "Wolf King", and Randland
has had every occurance of the term "Companion" excised.

Moiraine is not the font of TRVTH on the Cycle, but I very much suspect
that Verin is. My belief in something like the Purple Ajah is becoming
stronger -- but focused more now on the Thirteenth Depository and its
Librarians.

Looney Theory:
Verin was a member of the Thirteenth Librarians -- a group dedicated to
preserving Secrets, only a few of which are the Secret Histories of the
Tower. They have a complete copy of the Original Cycle, and Verin is
in charge of making sure it comes about properly. Seventy Years Ago,
she made an error which caused her to lose her status of Head
Librarian, and was sent back to the general Aes Sedai population, but
she is still working toward the Purple's ends.

--
Duncan J Macdonald
***@comcast.net
***@navy.mil

[D. Todd Caslick]

Post by Duncan J Macdonald
Verin was a member of the Thirteenth Librarians -- a group dedicated to
preserving Secrets, only a few of which are the Secret Histories of the
Tower. They have a complete copy of the Original Cycle, and Verin is
in charge of making sure it comes about properly. Seventy Years Ago,
she made an error which caused her to lose her status of Head
Librarian, and was sent back to the general Aes Sedai population, but
she is still working toward the Purple's ends.

I think RJ was asked if Verin was associated with the Thirteenth
Depository Librarians at a recent signing and replied no. It was a
fairly recent signing, so it is probably not too far down the line,
although there are plenty of new threads these days. Depending on the
phrasing of the question and the answer, he could be dodging (much like
the CNN interview where it seems like he confirms that Graendal killed
Asmodean), so YMMV.



Todd

[Duncan J Macdonald]

Post by D. Todd Caslick

Post by Duncan J Macdonald
Verin was a member of the Thirteenth Librarians -- a group dedicated to
preserving Secrets, only a few of which are the Secret Histories of the
Tower. They have a complete copy of the Original Cycle, and Verin is
in charge of making sure it comes about properly. Seventy Years Ago,
she made an error which caused her to lose her status of Head
Librarian, and was sent back to the general Aes Sedai population, but
she is still working toward the Purple's ends.

I think RJ was asked if Verin was associated with the Thirteenth
Depository Librarians at a recent signing and replied no. It was a
fairly recent signing, so it is probably not too far down the line,
although there are plenty of new threads these days. Depending on the
phrasing of the question and the answer, he could be dodging (much like
the CNN interview where it seems like he confirms that Graendal killed
Asmodean), so YMMV.

Yeah, The Bailey's Crossroads Signing. Drat!

No dodging, a flat out "No".

<sigh> Back to the Aes Sedai Hating and Bashing Drawing Board.

[Michael D Rost]

Post by Duncan J Macdonald

Post by D. Todd Caslick

Post by Duncan J Macdonald
Verin was a member of the Thirteenth Librarians -- a group dedicated to
preserving Secrets, only a few of which are the Secret Histories of the
Tower. They have a complete copy of the Original Cycle, and Verin is
in charge of making sure it comes about properly. Seventy Years Ago,
she made an error which caused her to lose her status of Head
Librarian, and was sent back to the general Aes Sedai population, but
she is still working toward the Purple's ends.

I think RJ was asked if Verin was associated with the Thirteenth
Depository Librarians at a recent signing and replied no. It was a
fairly recent signing, so it is probably not too far down the line,
although there are plenty of new threads these days. Depending on the
phrasing of the question and the answer, he could be dodging (much like
the CNN interview where it seems like he confirms that Graendal killed
Asmodean), so YMMV.

Yeah, The Bailey's Crossroads Signing. Drat!
No dodging, a flat out "No".
<sigh> Back to the Aes Sedai Hating and Bashing Drawing Board.
--
Duncan J Macdonald

Perhaps the link to Verin's knowledge involves her episode in Far Madding?
Perhaps the ter'angeral that shields channelers from the source in the city
was installed to protect an original copy of the prophecies?

Don't mind me.

[Donald S. Crankshaw]

Post by Duncan J Macdonald

Post by Davian

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<snip all but the Spoiler Space>

Post by Davian
But Moiraine knew Perrin was connected with wolves during Eye of the World,
and knows how truly rare it is. As much as she has studied the Prophecies,
then as soon as she decides Rand is the Dragon and not Perrin, she should be
able to figure out the rest. I like option 3 for this one. It's more than
possible that the prophecies in Randland proper could have become corrupted in
some small details, while the Seanchan ones held true. It's the only way
Moiraine's comment makes sense to me. (other than just saying Jordan screwed
up.)

I seem to recall (and my mind is like a very rusty trap right now) that
Our Friend Ishamael had a hand in modifying the Prophecies back when he
convinced Artur Hawkwing to send out the expedition to Seanchan. This
all came from the BBoBA, and I'll have to wade back into that morass to
check. It would be very much in character for Ishamael to make several
different copies of the Cycle and have substantive differences between
them, just to cause more problems for those who try to recognize the
Dragon Reborn.
So, "Bind the Nine Moons" is in Randland's version, and "Kneel to the
Crystal Throne" is in theirs. They have a "Wolf King", and Randland
has had every occurance of the term "Companion" excised.

Which may also explain why Ishamael had all three of them on display at
the Dark Friend Social way back in Book 2, giving them close to equal
prominence, whereas the Aes Sedai were thinking, "Oh look, two other
ta'veren. Isn't that interesting? Perhaps we should let one or two die
off so they don't cause problems." I'm not sure how many of those Aes
Sedai ever managed to figure out that trying to use ta'veren just winds
up tangling your thread in the whirlpool that surrounds him.

-Donald S. Crankshaw

[Ash]

Post by Duncan J Macdonald

Post by Davian

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<snip all but the Spoiler Space>

Post by Davian
But Moiraine knew Perrin was connected with wolves during Eye of the World,
and knows how truly rare it is. As much as she has studied the Prophecies,
then as soon as she decides Rand is the Dragon and not Perrin, she should be
able to figure out the rest. I like option 3 for this one. It's more than
possible that the prophecies in Randland proper could have become corrupted in
some small details, while the Seanchan ones held true. It's the only way
Moiraine's comment makes sense to me. (other than just saying Jordan screwed
up.)

I seem to recall (and my mind is like a very rusty trap right now) that
Our Friend Ishamael had a hand in modifying the Prophecies back when he
convinced Artur Hawkwing to send out the expedition to Seanchan. This
all came from the BBoBA, and I'll have to wade back into that morass to
check. It would be very much in character for Ishamael to make several
different copies of the Cycle and have substantive differences between
them, just to cause more problems for those who try to recognize the
Dragon Reborn.
So, "Bind the Nine Moons" is in Randland's version, and "Kneel to the
Crystal Throne" is in theirs. They have a "Wolf King", and Randland
has had every occurance of the term "Companion" excised.

I think there were neough copies, in dusty old storerooms, libraries and
the White Tower that this couldn't have happened.I think it more simple.
In Randland, "He shall bind the nine moons to him" had no meaning and
was ignored. In Seanchan, once the court of the nine moons was formed,
this was unacceptable and the order went out to change it.
Moiraine, was just too obsessed with Rand. In the early books, we see
her often imply that she would have Lan kill Mat or Perrin if the got in
the way of her quest for Rand. She had it in her mind that he was the
only important one, and as the prophecies didn't mention companions
specifically, never thought to link them.

[Jamie Bowden]

Post by Davian
But Moiraine knew Perrin was connected with wolves during Eye of the
World, and knows how truly rare it is. As much as she has studied the
Prophecies, then as soon as she decides Rand is the Dragon and not
Perrin, she should be able to figure out the rest. I like option 3 for
this one. It's more than possible that the prophecies in Randland
proper could have become corrupted in some small details, while the
Seanchan ones held true. It's the only way Moiraine's comment makes
sense to me. (other than just saying Jordan screwed up.)

There are no spoilers in here. Moiraine also knew of at least one other
man who was like Perrin, and thusly he was not unique. Just being able to
speak to wolves doesn't make him a king. There's also the distinct
possibility that Moiraine can't pull up every last detail of every bit of
the Kareathon Cycle at any moment, especially when under stress. She is
highly competent, or at least was when she disappeared, but still human.
Let's hope RJ doesn't turn her into yet another charicature when she's
finally returned.

Jamie Bowden

[p***@aol.com]

Post by Donald S. Crankshaw
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3. Moiraine didn't know of the references. Consider who's relaying
those prophecies to the heroes. The Seanchan, whose Prophecies of the
Dragon we _know_ to be different, told Perrin about the "Wolf King" one.
We had considered those differences corruptions and mistakes, but this
bit comes too close to the truth. If it's one of the places where it
differs from the known prophecies, then maybe those differences aren't
so corrupted after all. As for the fox bit that Noal cites, well, it is
Noal. Even if he's not Jain Farstrider (and I wouldn't bet on it), he's
very well travelled, and as far as we know may have picked up that part
of the Prophecies in Shara or Tremalking.
I like option number three the best.

I suspect that's where Jordan's been going, though I still wonder why
every Seanchan knows their versions of the Prophecies off by heart
rather than just scholars (Tylee's a pretty straightforward soldier,
and not a member of the Blood until the end of the book, so why would
that have formed part of her education?) As for Noal - "if he's not
Jain Farstrider"? Jain just happened to have a cousin who did as much
as he did but remained completely unknown? One who's filled with
apparent self-loathing for Jain leaving his wife to die?

Philip Bowles

[Michael O'Neill]

Post by Donald S. Crankshaw
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Up until CoT, we assumed that there was no mention of Mat or Perrin in
the Prophecies of the Dragon. After all, we had it on good authority,
from Moiraine's point of view in tSR, Chapter 21: "Moiraine had not
believed it herself, at first, had not seen it. Three _ta'veren_, all
the same age, coming out of one village; she must have been blind not to
realize they had to be connected. Everything had become much more
complicated with that knowledge. Like trying to juggle three of Thom's
colored balls one-handed and blindfolded; she had seen Thom do that, but
she would not want to try. There was no guide to show how they were
connected, or what they were supposed to do; the Prophecies never
mentioned companions."
However, in the last two books, two passages from the Prophecies have
appeared which refer specifically to Mat and Perrin. The first, quoted
Fortune rides like the sun on high
with the fox who makes the ravens fly.
Luck his soul, lightning his eye,
He snatches the moons from out of the sky.
This passage obviously refers to Mat. Then there's the prophecy Tylee
quoted in KoD, Chapter 4: "When the Wolf King carries the hammer, thus
are the final days known. When the fox marries the raven, and the
trumpets of battle are blown."
So how do we reconcile Moiraine's belief that there's no mention of
Perrin or Mat with these startlingly clear references? Well, there are
1. A misstep by Jordan. After all, tSR was seven books ago. The
easiest way, but not very satisfying.
2. Moiraine knew of the references, but didn't make the connection to
Mat and Perrin. This I buy in Mat's case, as there was nothing to link
him to foxes or ravens before the second doorway ter'angreal, where he
received the fox amulet and the raven-marked spear. As for the luck, I
don't recall _any_ Aes Sedai paying much attention to Mat's luck, even
Moiraine. He's lucky that way. But Perrin? A blacksmith who talks
with wolves should set off alarm bells in anyone familiar with a
prophecy involving a Wolf King with a hammer.
3. Moiraine didn't know of the references. Consider who's relaying
those prophecies to the heroes. The Seanchan, whose Prophecies of the
Dragon we _know_ to be different, told Perrin about the "Wolf King" one.
We had considered those differences corruptions and mistakes, but this
bit comes too close to the truth. If it's one of the places where it
differs from the known prophecies, then maybe those differences aren't
so corrupted after all. As for the fox bit that Noal cites, well, it is
Noal. Even if he's not Jain Farstrider (and I wouldn't bet on it), he's
very well travelled, and as far as we know may have picked up that part
of the Prophecies in Shara or Tremalking.
I like option number three the best.
-Donald S. Crankshaw

Jordan's seeming portrayal of Moiraine as misunderstanding the prophecies
internally rests on the references themselves. They don't at forst glance
seem to refer to humans.

Externally, its Jordan's way of makign his readers feel more clever than
an Aes Sedai.

M.