What if Rand reveals his heritage?

[Legolas]

Why doesn't Rand reveal who he is (that he's the son of Tigraine, the
Daughter-heir of Andor before Morgase)? It would surely bring him
closer to a few Cairhien and Andoran families. Sure, at first he had a
hard time believing that Tam and the mom he knew weren't actually his
parents, but surely now he's gotten over it, tough as he's become.

For example, I'd love to see the two formidable swordmaster brothers,
Rand and Galad, fighting side by side! Galad would make a superb
General for Rand. (What about the Whitecloaks?)

I'd also love to see Andor want him as King instead of that little...
Elayne who thinks she can control the Dragon Reborn, the Creator's
eternal Champion, by making him her warder. (grrrr..)
Not that he'd accept the throne, but just to put that little arrogant
bitch (I said it) in her place. She definitely doesn't deserve him.

[Bill E. Brooks]

Post by Legolas
Why doesn't Rand reveal who he is (that he's the son of Tigraine, the
Daughter-heir of Andor before Morgase)? It would surely bring him
closer to a few Cairhien and Andoran families. Sure, at first he had a
hard time believing that Tam and the mom he knew weren't actually his
parents, but surely now he's gotten over it, tough as he's become.
For example, I'd love to see the two formidable swordmaster brothers,
Rand and Galad, fighting side by side! Galad would make a superb
General for Rand. (What about the Whitecloaks?)

He's been waiting for political reasons for Elayne to win the throne
of Andor. The time might now be right for Rand to reveal who his
mother is.

Btw, who is head of House Mantear now?

Post by Legolas
I'd also love to see Andor want him as King instead of that little...
Elayne who thinks she can control the Dragon Reborn, the Creator's
eternal Champion, by making him her warder. (grrrr..)
Not that he'd accept the throne, but just to put that little arrogant
bitch (I said it) in her place. She definitely doesn't deserve him.

Dream on. Andor has a matriarchy.

-Bill E. Brooks

[dwn]

Post by Bill E. Brooks

Post by Legolas
Why doesn't Rand reveal who he is (that he's the son of Tigraine, the
Daughter-heir of Andor before Morgase)? It would surely bring him
closer to a few Cairhien and Andoran families. Sure, at first he had a
hard time believing that Tam and the mom he knew weren't actually his
parents, but surely now he's gotten over it, tough as he's become.
For example, I'd love to see the two formidable swordmaster brothers,
Rand and Galad, fighting side by side! Galad would make a superb
General for Rand. (What about the Whitecloaks?)

He's been waiting for political reasons for Elayne to win the throne
of Andor. The time might now be right for Rand to reveal who his
mother is.
Btw, who is head of House Mantear now?

I think it's mentioned that with both Tigraine and Luc gone, Mantear
pretty much dissappeared. Gareth Bryne muses over how his house is
going to die off since he has no heirs.

Post by Bill E. Brooks

Post by Legolas
I'd also love to see Andor want him as King instead of that little...
Elayne who thinks she can control the Dragon Reborn, the Creator's
eternal Champion, by making him her warder. (grrrr..)
Not that he'd accept the throne, but just to put that little arrogant
bitch (I said it) in her place. She definitely doesn't deserve him.

Dream on. Andor has a matriarchy.
-Bill E. Brooks

Yeah, the Andoran houses had enough trouble choking down Elayne Aes
Sedai, daughter of that screw up Morgase.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the Laurel Crown, now that
we know Mattin Stepaneos is alive.

Along those lines, the Sun Throne could also be contested. Elayne
hasn't exactly been drooling over it (granted she's been preoccupied),
but there are others with just as valid a claim. Gawyn's and Galad's
are at least as good, Galad's likely better since he took the Damodred
name. Moiraine's is probably better than either of them. I have
trouble seeing any of them actually wanting it, though, and the
Damodred name still has a bit of a taint.

-- dwn

[Tim Bruening]

Post by dwn

Post by Bill E. Brooks

Post by Legolas
Why doesn't Rand reveal who he is (that he's the son of Tigraine, the
Daughter-heir of Andor before Morgase)? It would surely bring him
closer to a few Cairhien and Andoran families. Sure, at first he had a
hard time believing that Tam and the mom he knew weren't actually his
parents, but surely now he's gotten over it, tough as he's become.
For example, I'd love to see the two formidable swordmaster brothers,
Rand and Galad, fighting side by side! Galad would make a superb
General for Rand. (What about the Whitecloaks?)

He's been waiting for political reasons for Elayne to win the throne
of Andor. The time might now be right for Rand to reveal who his
mother is.
Btw, who is head of House Mantear now?

I think it's mentioned that with both Tigraine and Luc gone, Mantear
pretty much dissappeared. Gareth Bryne muses over how his house is
going to die off since he has no heirs.

Post by Bill E. Brooks

Post by Legolas
I'd also love to see Andor want him as King instead of that little...
Elayne who thinks she can control the Dragon Reborn, the Creator's
eternal Champion, by making him her warder. (grrrr..)
Not that he'd accept the throne, but just to put that little arrogant
bitch (I said it) in her place. She definitely doesn't deserve him.

Dream on. Andor has a matriarchy.
-Bill E. Brooks

Yeah, the Andoran houses had enough trouble choking down Elayne Aes
Sedai, daughter of that screw up Morgase.
It'll be interesting to see what happens to the Laurel Crown, now that
we know Mattin Stepaneos is alive.

Egwene can now deliver him back to Illian.

Post by dwn
Along those lines, the Sun Throne could also be contested. Elayne
hasn't exactly been drooling over it (granted she's been preoccupied),
but there are others with just as valid a claim. Gawyn's and Galad's
are at least as good, Galad's likely better since he took the Damodred
name. Moiraine's is probably better than either of them. I have
trouble seeing any of them actually wanting it, though, and the
Damodred name still has a bit of a taint.

Rand: Thank the Light you're alive, Moiraine! The Sun Throne needs you!

[Tim Bruening]

Post by dwn

Post by Bill E. Brooks

Post by Legolas
Why doesn't Rand reveal who he is (that he's the son of Tigraine, the
Daughter-heir of Andor before Morgase)? It would surely bring him
closer to a few Cairhien and Andoran families. Sure, at first he had a
hard time believing that Tam and the mom he knew weren't actually his
parents, but surely now he's gotten over it, tough as he's become.
For example, I'd love to see the two formidable swordmaster brothers,
Rand and Galad, fighting side by side! Galad would make a superb
General for Rand. (What about the Whitecloaks?)

He's been waiting for political reasons for Elayne to win the throne
of Andor. The time might now be right for Rand to reveal who his
mother is.
Btw, who is head of House Mantear now?

I think it's mentioned that with both Tigraine and Luc gone, Mantear
pretty much dissappeared. Gareth Bryne muses over how his house is
going to die off since he has no heirs.

Post by Bill E. Brooks

Post by Legolas
I'd also love to see Andor want him as King instead of that little...
Elayne who thinks she can control the Dragon Reborn, the Creator's
eternal Champion, by making him her warder. (grrrr..)
Not that he'd accept the throne, but just to put that little arrogant
bitch (I said it) in her place. She definitely doesn't deserve him.

Dream on. Andor has a matriarchy.
-Bill E. Brooks

Yeah, the Andoran houses had enough trouble choking down Elayne Aes
Sedai, daughter of that screw up Morgase.
It'll be interesting to see what happens to the Laurel Crown, now that
we know Mattin Stepaneos is alive.

Egwene can now deliver him back to Illian.

Post by dwn
Along those lines, the Sun Throne could also be contested. Elayne
hasn't exactly been drooling over it (granted she's been preoccupied),
but there are others with just as valid a claim. Gawyn's and Galad's
are at least as good, Galad's likely better since he took the Damodred
name. Moiraine's is probably better than either of them. I have
trouble seeing any of them actually wanting it, though, and the
Damodred name still has a bit of a taint.

Rand: Moiraine, you have won the ultimate prize: The Sun Throne!

[Geoffrey Willmore]

Post by Bill E. Brooks
Btw, who is head of House Mantear now?

Perival Mantear.

[Legolas]

"Bill E. Brooks" wrote in message

Post by Bill E. Brooks
Btw, who is head of House Mantear now?

Perival Mantear.

Yeah, a yet uncorrupted, sensible young boy of 15. (CoT ch13) Would he
continue to support Elayne? Or would he kneel in awe and admiration
before the Dragon Reborn when he finds out he's a relative? And maybe
even ask to join the Ashaman?

[Geoffrey Willmore]

Geoffrey Willmore wrote in message

Post by Geoffrey Willmore

Post by Bill E. Brooks
Btw, who is head of House Mantear now?

Perival Mantear.

Talking of this: are the rule to chose the High Seat of a House known?
Obviously, it can go to either man or woman, and is somehow hereditary. But
it can not be a simple inheritance to the elder son or daughter: Gawyn
would be (assumed) High Seat of Trakand in place of Elayne, and Galad would
be High Seat of Mantear (or was Luc older than Tigraine, and does he have
descendants?). Furthermore, if it was that way, by now all houses would have
the same High Seat, or almost that.

[Dave Rothgery]

Post by Geoffrey Willmore
Geoffrey Willmore wrote in message

Post by Geoffrey Willmore

Post by Bill E. Brooks
Btw, who is head of House Mantear now?

Perival Mantear.

Talking of this: are the rule to chose the High Seat of a House known?
Obviously, it can go to either man or woman, and is somehow hereditary. But
it can not be a simple inheritance to the elder son or daughter: Gawyn
would be (assumed) High Seat of Trakand in place of Elayne, and Galad would
be High Seat of Mantear (or was Luc older than Tigraine, and does he have
descendants?).

It wouldn't be surprising if there are special rules for the house that
holds the Lion Throne (i.e. normally High Seat passes to eldest child,
but for a ruling Queen, it passes to eldest daughter if there is one).
Galad's place in any line of succession is kind of screwy, because he
was born a Damodred (Tigraine married into Damodred, rather than
Taringail marrying into Mantear), and adopted into Trakand. Rand's is
even more confusing, because his mother was a runaway daughter-heir, his
father was an Aiel clan chief, and he was effectively adopted by Tam and
Kari al'Thor.

[Geoffrey Willmore]

Dave Rothgery wrote in message

Post by Dave Rothgery
It wouldn't be surprising if there are special rules for the house that
holds the Lion Throne (i.e. normally High Seat passes to eldest child,
but for a ruling Queen, it passes to eldest daughter if there is one).

That is possible, but that is not enough. If the High Seat went to the
eldest son or daughter except maybe in the ruling House, imagine the
following case: the secondborn of House A marries the firstborn of House B,
and they have a child. The firstborn of House A dies: the child would be
heir of High Seats of both Houses A and B, and it would stay the same person
until that whole branch of the family tree would be extinct. Obviously, in
about one thousand years, the case would have happened several times for the
major Houses. Well, we have some evidence that the High Seats are different
people, so that hypothesis is wrong.

Post by Dave Rothgery
Galad's place in any line of succession is kind of screwy, because he
was born a Damodred (Tigraine married into Damodred, rather than
Taringail marrying into Mantear),

You mean that when two nobles marry, they agree that one of them leaves its
House and belongs now to the other's? That is something like what existes
historically, except that in the real (western) world, it is always the wife
who enters the husband's family. But somehow, I can not see the Daughter
Heir forsaking her House.

Another possibility is that somehow the children belong to the House of one
of their parents, and only one. There is several possibilities as for which
House: common agreement of the parents, the highest ranking House (if there
is something like that), the House of the highest ranking parent. I believe
this is the most likely explanation.

Post by Dave Rothgery
and adopted into Trakand.

Adopted children probably gain the rights of biologic ones; the ranking
between the (broth|sist)erhood is unclear, as is whether they keep or lose
the rights they had regarding their original House.

Post by Dave Rothgery
Rand's is
even more confusing, because his mother was a runaway daughter-heir

I believe the case of Rand is quite simple: he is no legitimate child, he
has nothing to do in the flow of nobility inheritance.

[Legolas]

Post by Geoffrey Willmore
I believe the case of Rand is quite simple: he is no legitimate child, he
has nothing to do in the flow of nobility inheritance.

Illegitimate child? Why is that? An illegitimate child from the
point of view of inheritance is one born outside of the legal
marriage. Rand's mother was married to Rand's father.

But most importantly, remember that it is the blood relation with
Ishara, the first queen of Andor, which counts, via the women
ascendants. I.e. if Tigraine was a closer kin to Ishara than Morgase
(and she was), then Rand is closer kin to Ishara than Elayne. That
is, provided they accept a king on the throne.

[Geoffrey Willmore]

Post by Legolas
Rand's mother was married to Rand's father.

Not according to Andor law.

[Legolas]

Post by Bill E. Brooks

Post by Legolas
Why doesn't Rand reveal who he is (that he's the son of Tigraine, the
Daughter-heir of Andor before Morgase)? It would surely bring him
closer to a few Cairhien and Andoran families. Sure, at first he had a
hard time believing that Tam and the mom he knew weren't actually his
parents, but surely now he's gotten over it, tough as he's become.
For example, I'd love to see the two formidable swordmaster

brothers,

Post by Bill E. Brooks

Post by Legolas
Rand and Galad, fighting side by side! Galad would make a superb
General for Rand. (What about the Whitecloaks?)

He's been waiting for political reasons for Elayne to win the throne
of Andor.

Yeah, I guess it's OK for Elayne to be queen of Andor. But it's time
he figures out that his infatuation with a princess is just that - a
fairy tale. And to get it inside his head that he's a bloody Prince
too - even more, he's the Champion of The Light!

I feel she only wanted him because of what he represents - that it
would be great to have the Dragon Reborn be her loyal
servant/protector and father of her Royal children. Perhaps she loves
him a little too, but I can't imagine how love can make her go on and
on and on about making him her warder (i.e. a kind of slave, in my
mind). This whole Princess cum Aes Sedai thing has gone up to her
head. Aviendha, and especially Min, are much more sincere, have never
had such thoughts and have done much more for him - they deserve him
much more. How often has he even seen Elayne? Once in the palace in
Caemlyn, and once in the Stone of Tear (where *she* kissed him, then
wrote him 2 contradictory letters). The next time he saw her she
bonded him (the idiot). Did she use the warder bond to make him sleep
with her right after the bonding? (WH,ch12,330: "There is something
they have had from you that I haven't..." - yeah, a fuck, but at least
the other two shared his life and suffering for days and nights, and
it came naturally with them. Childish bitch.)

Perhaps that fearsome DF assassin lady in Caemlyn (Mili Skane) will
finally get rid of her. That would also give the Legendary Birgitte
back some of her dignity; perhaps even take her back to the land of
the fallen heroes of legend, where she belongs, with her eternal loved
one.

OK, I'm not really hoping Elayne will die, just for her to lose any
influence she has on Rand, or at least lose that arrogance and see him
for who he really is. Perhaps when she sees who Mat and Perrin have
become (and their followers, including her mother), she'll understand
who Rand is. I'd love to see her get down on her knees and swear
fealty to him. <G> [God, she gets on my nerves...]

Post by Bill E. Brooks

Post by Legolas
I'd also love to see Andor want him as King instead of that

little...

Post by Bill E. Brooks

Post by Legolas
Elayne who thinks she can control the Dragon Reborn, the Creator's
eternal Champion, by making him her warder. (grrrr..)
Not that he'd accept the throne, but just to put that little

arrogant

Post by Bill E. Brooks

Post by Legolas
bitch (I said it) in her place. She definitely doesn't deserve him.

Dream on. Andor has a matriarchy.

Taringail was hoping/planning to gain the throne of Andor, so it may
not impossible.

[Bryce]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:58:25 +0100, "Legolas" <***@spam.com> wrote:
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Post by Legolas
For example, I'd love to see the two formidable swordmaster brothers,
Rand and Galad, fighting side by side! Galad would make a superb
General for Rand. (What about the Whitecloaks?)

Well, Rand's hand that he uses for holding a sword is no more, so I
don't think he'd be as formidable as he used to be.

--
Last year I went to Iraq. Before Team America showed up, it was a happy place. They had flowery meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate, where the children danced and laughed and played with gumdrop smiles.

[Legolas]

Post by Bryce
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Post by Legolas
For example, I'd love to see the two formidable swordmaster

brothers,

Post by Bryce

Post by Legolas
Rand and Galad, fighting side by side! Galad would make a superb
General for Rand. (What about the Whitecloaks?)

Well, Rand's hand that he uses for holding a sword is no more, so I
don't think he'd be as formidable as he used to be.

That's precisely why Galad at his side would make sense, in that
inevitable moment when Rand can neither use the OP (I know that moment
is coming, to give sense to the loss of hand), nor a sword. Galad as
a body guard for Rand would be nice. And someone suggested in another
thread that Galad may have the ability to channel, but does not know
it yet. That would be really great. (He's Rand's *brother* for
Godssakes, he has to have a more important role to play!)

[Bryce]

Post by Legolas

Post by Bryce
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Post by Legolas
For example, I'd love to see the two formidable swordmaster

brothers,

Post by Bryce

Post by Legolas
Rand and Galad, fighting side by side! Galad would make a superb
General for Rand. (What about the Whitecloaks?)

Well, Rand's hand that he uses for holding a sword is no more, so I
don't think he'd be as formidable as he used to be.

That's precisely why Galad at his side would make sense, in that
inevitable moment when Rand can neither use the OP (I know that moment
is coming, to give sense to the loss of hand), nor a sword. Galad as
a body guard for Rand would be nice. And someone suggested in another
thread that Galad may have the ability to channel, but does not know
it yet. That would be really great. (He's Rand's *brother* for
Godssakes, he has to have a more important role to play!)

Good point, but aren't the Maidens acting as Rand's body guard (that
is, if he lets them, instead of carting off everywhere without telling
them)

--
Last year I went to Iraq. Before Team America showed up, it was a happy place. They had flowery meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate, where the children danced and laughed and played with gumdrop smiles.

[Legolas]

Post by Bryce

Post by Legolas
That's precisely why Galad at his side would make sense, in that
inevitable moment when Rand can neither use the OP (I know that moment
is coming, to give sense to the loss of hand), nor a sword. Galad as
a body guard for Rand would be nice. And someone suggested in another
thread that Galad may have the ability to channel, but does not know
it yet. That would be really great. (He's Rand's *brother* for
Godssakes, he has to have a more important role to play!)

Good point, but aren't the Maidens acting as Rand's body guard (that
is, if he lets them, instead of carting off everywhere without

telling

Post by Bryce
them)

Yeah, and I really love them for that. The Maidens are really the only
group that really touches me (hmmm?) because of their pure intentions,
honour, and love for Rand. Well, the Aiel in general are the best lot
in this series. [To RJ: If you kill them, I'll come get ya!] :)
But Galad in that group as well would be nice too...

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Legolas

Post by Bryce
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Post by Legolas
For example, I'd love to see the two formidable swordmaster

brothers,

Post by Bryce

Post by Legolas
Rand and Galad, fighting side by side! Galad would make a superb
General for Rand. (What about the Whitecloaks?)

Well, Rand's hand that he uses for holding a sword is no more, so I
don't think he'd be as formidable as he used to be.

That's precisely why Galad at his side would make sense, in that
inevitable moment when Rand can neither use the OP (I know that moment
is coming, to give sense to the loss of hand), nor a sword. Galad as
a body guard for Rand would be nice. And someone suggested in another
thread that Galad may have the ability to channel, but does not know
it yet. That would be really great. (He's Rand's *brother* for
Godssakes, he has to have a more important role to play!)

However, Galad is firmly against the Seanchan, and Rand is trying to make
an alliance with the Seanchan. This would cause Galad to be against Rand.

[dwn]

Post by Tim Bruening

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However, Galad is firmly against the Seanchan, and Rand is trying to make
an alliance with the Seanchan. This would cause Galad to be against Rand.

Galad is, however, leading the Children of the Light into an alliance
with the Aes Sedai because the last battle is more important right now.
Even -Byar- agrees with that. I think he'd support a Seanchan
alliance for the same reason.

-- dwn

[t***@gmail.com]

Post by Legolas
Why doesn't Rand reveal who he is (that he's
the son of Tigraine, the Daughter-heir of Andor
before Morgase)?

How's he going to prove it?

[Legolas]

Post by t***@gmail.com

Post by Legolas
Why doesn't Rand reveal who he is (that he's
the son of Tigraine, the Daughter-heir of Andor
before Morgase)?

How's he going to prove it?

There are respectable Aiel witnesses, IIRC.

[Peter Reid]

Post by Legolas

Post by t***@gmail.com

Post by Legolas
Why doesn't Rand reveal who he is (that he's
the son of Tigraine, the Daughter-heir of Andor
before Morgase)?

How's he going to prove it?

There are respectable Aiel witnesses, IIRC.

Who don't know what her real name was, nor do they really care.

[Legolas]

Post by Peter Reid

Post by Legolas

Post by t***@gmail.com

Post by Legolas
Why doesn't Rand reveal who he is (that he's
the son of Tigraine, the Daughter-heir of Andor
before Morgase)?

How's he going to prove it?

There are respectable Aiel witnesses, IIRC.

Who don't know what her real name was, nor do they really care.

Not sure about that. They don't need to care if Rand asks them to
testify.

But Moiraine knows too, right? Perhaps her accomplices? Siuan?

[Legolas]

Post by Legolas

Post by Peter Reid

Post by Legolas

Post by t***@gmail.com

Post by Legolas
Why doesn't Rand reveal who he is (that he's
the son of Tigraine, the Daughter-heir of Andor
before Morgase)?

How's he going to prove it?

There are respectable Aiel witnesses, IIRC.

Who don't know what her real name was, nor do they really care.

Not sure about that. They don't need to care if Rand asks them to
testify.
But Moiraine knows too, right? Perhaps her accomplices? Siuan?

I'd also think the dream-walking Wise Ones wouldn't resist the
temptation of visiting her dreams to find out who she was.
Tigraine could have even confided in someone during her long stay with
the Aiel and revealed her identity to them.
Perhaps she even had an accomplice (the nanny?) in Caemlyn who met
with her every now and then to give her news about Galad. Surely she
missed he boy.

[Peter Reid]

Post by Legolas

Post by Peter Reid

Post by Legolas

Post by t***@gmail.com

Post by Legolas
Why doesn't Rand reveal who he is (that he's
the son of Tigraine, the Daughter-heir of Andor
before Morgase)?

How's he going to prove it?

There are respectable Aiel witnesses, IIRC.

Who don't know what her real name was, nor do they really care.

Not sure about that. They don't need to care if Rand asks them to
testify.
But Moiraine knows too, right? Perhaps her accomplices? Siuan?

And the Wise Ones are always ever-so-eager to do whatever Rand asks.

Ok, sarcasm aside...what I meant was that the Wise Ones have no clue who
Tigraine was (the only name she gave them was Shaiel), and never cared
enough to ask her who she was...ergo they would be totally useless
witnesses as to Rand's heritage.

Moiraine certainly knows who Shaiel was; I don't know if she knew before
going to the Aiel Waste however. If not, then she is likely the only AS
who knows, as by that point it seems that any messages she was sending
to Siuan were being intercepted.

[t***@gmail.com]

Uh-huh. And we all know how much the Randlanders admire, respect and
trust the "savages".

Besides, in political issues, people always believe what they want to
be true- those who support Rand would believe whatever claims he made,
those who don't support him would believe his claim proved that he had
gone mad from the taint.