Discussion:
Knife of Dreams SPOILERS from Dragon*Con
(too old to reply)
Rajiv Mote
2005-09-05 21:24:12 UTC
Permalink
I just got back from Dragon*Con in Atlanta where Robert Jordan was a
guest. He was scheduled to do a reading from "Embers Falling On Dry
Grass," but instead, he whipped out his full copy of Knife of Dreams,
thumbed through it, and read a different chapter. I was,
unfortunately, on a shuttle bus to the hotel at the time, but a
gentleman by name of Dennis St. John (who has something to do with
Dragonmount.com?) kindly filled me in with the details on the chapter.
SPOILERS for Knife of Dreams follow.

I became SPOILER SPACE at the age of SPOILER SPACE, on a frigid
overcast SPOILER SPACE in the SPOILER SPACE of 1975. I remember the
precise SPOILER SPACE, crouching behind a crumbling SPOILER SPACE,
peeking into the SPOILER SPACE near the frozen SPOILER SPACE. That was
a long SPOILER SPACE, but it's wrong what they say about the SPOILER
SPACE, I've learned, about how you can bury it. Because the SPOILER
SPACE claws its way out. Looking back now, I realize I have been
peeking into that SPOILER SPACE for the last twenty-six years.

The chapter is from Mat's point of view, and it's a moment we've known
was coming. He has figured out Alludra's need for a bellfounder, and
has gone to discuss it with her. Indeed, Alludra wants to build metal
lofting tubes that will hurl metal balls. She may call them "dragons":
beasts that will appear to spit fire from their mouths. [I was unclear
whether she knew about the creature on the Dragon Banner, or -- more
likely -- she was naming the things after Rand, who hurls plenty of
fire on his own.] Alludra, it turns out, is a VERY pissed-off woman,
and she is directing her rage at the Seanchan by making weapons. She's
finally willing to share the secret knowledge with Mat because she has
come to the conclusion that now, she IS the Guild of Illuminators, and
their secrets are hers to do with as she will. Mat is very troubled;
he knows many people are going to die as a result of this. For the
first time, he feels the dice in his head SLOW instead of stop, and he
thinks he hears the Dark One laughing.

The Q&A sessions didn't reveal much. All questions about the Tower of
Ghenjei, the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn got RAFOed. Interestingly,
another question got RAFOed: someone asked if it was possible for a
male channeler, while asleep or dreaming, to be taken over by a past
personality. Hmm.

-- Rajiv
j***@gmail.com
2005-09-06 01:21:40 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Rajiv! It was great meeting you and seeing you compete in the
trivia contest.

Jordan told me he planned to read either this, or another Mat POV where
he is riding with Tuon, but that gave away more than he wanted to
reveal at this point.
Rajiv Mote
2005-09-06 02:09:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@gmail.com
Thanks Rajiv! It was great meeting you and seeing you compete in the
trivia contest.
Likewise, and thank you again -- I had a good time! Who ended up
winning? I was sorely tempted to reschedule my flight so I could
compete in the final round in front of Jordan, but costs and hassles
won out. Alas.
Post by j***@gmail.com
Jordan told me he planned to read either this, or another Mat POV where
he is riding with Tuon, but that gave away more than he wanted to
reveal at this point.
Tantalizing... I'm oddly grateful that work is keeping me as swamped as
it is. September will fly by in no time, and then I'm taking a day off
just to read and relax. Ahh.

-- Rajiv
j***@gmail.com
2005-09-06 02:47:00 UTC
Permalink
Jennifer H. won that contest. It was very, very close between her and
Raeyn Sedai (she doesn't use her real name online). I think if Rae had
been slightly less hung over she could've made it though.

Jordan told us at the trivia contest that we needed to get out more and
that he missed a few of the questions himself. It was very funny. But
Shannan very carefully researched everything, so there was no question
on the winner.
j***@cub.kcnet.org
2005-09-06 02:46:21 UTC
Permalink
Rajiv Mote wrote:

[snip]
Post by Rajiv Mote
The Q&A sessions didn't reveal much. All questions about the Tower of
Ghenjei, the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn got RAFOed. Interestingly,
another question got RAFOed: someone asked if it was possible for a
male channeler, while asleep or dreaming, to be taken over by a past
personality. Hmm.
So far I have seen reports that eliminate Fain as Asmodean's
Killer, that Rand did not cut Asmodean's tie to the Dark One
(just the protection from the taint), Taim was born with the
spark and is in his late twenties and has already started to slow.

I am hoping Bob delivers us a full transcript as I think he
was there the whole time. I did see that he or someone else
asked the third Blue Sitter question for which I give my thanks.
I was hoping he would give a name but with that now public
I can hone my question in a way that might lead to a more
informative answer.

If everything I have heard is true coming out of Atlanta,
it seems Jordan was rather more forthcoming than in the past.

---
JSH
Alex Withers
2005-09-06 14:38:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@cub.kcnet.org
[snip]
Post by Rajiv Mote
The Q&A sessions didn't reveal much. All questions about the Tower of
Ghenjei, the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn got RAFOed. Interestingly,
another question got RAFOed: someone asked if it was possible for a
male channeler, while asleep or dreaming, to be taken over by a past
personality. Hmm.
So far I have seen reports that eliminate Fain as Asmodean's
Killer, that Rand did not cut Asmodean's tie to the Dark One
(just the protection from the taint), Taim was born with the
spark and is in his late twenties and has already started to slow.
I am hoping Bob delivers us a full transcript as I think he
was there the whole time. I did see that he or someone else
asked the third Blue Sitter question for which I give my thanks.
I was hoping he would give a name but with that now public
I can hone my question in a way that might lead to a more
informative answer.
If everything I have heard is true coming out of Atlanta,
it seems Jordan was rather more forthcoming than in the past.
---
JSH
There are various reports here:

http://p079.ezboard.com/ftheorylandfrm30

Some not-so-exciting 'finn questions got answers:

http://p079.ezboard.com/ftheorylandfrm30.showMessage?topicID=4.topic

The reports basically reaffirm what you've heard (or perhaps it's the
same source).


Alex
j***@gmail.com
2005-09-06 16:02:10 UTC
Permalink
Bob wasn't there. That report came from me and Bob posted it on my
behalf. As soon as I get a chance, I'll write a full report.
Unfortunately, I couldn't take notes during the Q&A sessions, so you'll
have to rely on the excellent Theoryland transcripts.
Richard Boye
2005-09-06 19:45:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@cub.kcnet.org
[snip]
Post by Rajiv Mote
The Q&A sessions didn't reveal much. All questions about the Tower of
Ghenjei, the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn got RAFOed. Interestingly,
another question got RAFOed: someone asked if it was possible for a
male channeler, while asleep or dreaming, to be taken over by a past
personality. Hmm.
So far I have seen reports that eliminate Fain as Asmodean's
Killer, that Rand did not cut Asmodean's tie to the Dark One
(just the protection from the taint), Taim was born with the
spark and is in his late twenties and has already started to slow.
I am hoping Bob delivers us a full transcript as I think he
was there the whole time. I did see that he or someone else
asked the third Blue Sitter question for which I give my thanks.
I was hoping he would give a name but with that now public
I can hone my question in a way that might lead to a more
informative answer.
Is there anything more to work with?
--
Richard M. Boye' * ***@webspan.net
Typing into the Void: ***@gmail.com
http://www.webspan.net/~waldo/­books/blogger.html
"Some men lead lives of quiet desperation.
My desperation makes a pathetic whining sound
j***@cub.kcnet.org
2005-09-06 23:22:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Boye
Post by j***@cub.kcnet.org
[snip]
Post by Rajiv Mote
The Q&A sessions didn't reveal much. All questions about the Tower of
Ghenjei, the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn got RAFOed. Interestingly,
another question got RAFOed: someone asked if it was possible for a
male channeler, while asleep or dreaming, to be taken over by a past
personality. Hmm.
So far I have seen reports that eliminate Fain as Asmodean's
Killer, that Rand did not cut Asmodean's tie to the Dark One
(just the protection from the taint), Taim was born with the
spark and is in his late twenties and has already started to slow.
I am hoping Bob delivers us a full transcript as I think he
was there the whole time. I did see that he or someone else
asked the third Blue Sitter question for which I give my thanks.
I was hoping he would give a name but with that now public
I can hone my question in a way that might lead to a more
informative answer.
Is there anything more to work with?
No doubt he saved a few bombshells for the signing tour.
I mean if he is letting loose with stuff like this with
just over a month to the next book, imagine what he will
be willing to share when he is faced with hundreds of eager
worshipers weeks in a row? We might even get Asmodean's killer.

---
JSH
Davian
2005-09-06 22:58:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@cub.kcnet.org
[snip]
Post by Rajiv Mote
The Q&A sessions didn't reveal much. All questions about the Tower of
Ghenjei, the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn got RAFOed. Interestingly,
another question got RAFOed: someone asked if it was possible for a
male channeler, while asleep or dreaming, to be taken over by a past
personality. Hmm.
So far I have seen reports that eliminate Fain as Asmodean's
Killer, that Rand did not cut Asmodean's tie to the Dark One
(just the protection from the taint), Taim was born with the
spark and is in his late twenties and has already started to slow.
Um... did I miss something? Unless I've completely lost my mind (a real
possibility) that doesn't really fit in with what has been said about Taim
already.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I always had the impression that Taim appeared 30'ish,
which would put him (at a minimum) low to mid 30's actual age once you add in
slowing. I could have sworn Rand though he looked quite a bit older than
Rand's age.

A mid 30's true age also seems to match with Taim's statements that he was
channeling for 15 years, and had trained 4? other men during that time.
20'ish for his spark, 15 channeling. A true age of late 20's would put his
spark event too early. Unless you assume Taim was lying to Rand. And I'm
at a loss for what that lie would gain him.
--
Jeff

Davian / Dearic
j***@cub.kcnet.org
2005-09-06 23:19:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davian
Post by j***@cub.kcnet.org
[snip]
Post by Rajiv Mote
The Q&A sessions didn't reveal much. All questions about the Tower of
Ghenjei, the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn got RAFOed. Interestingly,
another question got RAFOed: someone asked if it was possible for a
male channeler, while asleep or dreaming, to be taken over by a past
personality. Hmm.
So far I have seen reports that eliminate Fain as Asmodean's
Killer, that Rand did not cut Asmodean's tie to the Dark One
(just the protection from the taint), Taim was born with the
spark and is in his late twenties and has already started to slow.
Um... did I miss something? Unless I've completely lost my mind (a real
possibility) that doesn't really fit in with what has been said about Taim
already.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I always had the impression that Taim appeared 30'ish,
which would put him (at a minimum) low to mid 30's actual age once you add in
slowing. I could have sworn Rand though he looked quite a bit older than
Rand's age.
A mid 30's true age also seems to match with Taim's statements that he was
channeling for 15 years, and had trained 4? other men during that time.
20'ish for his spark, 15 channeling. A true age of late 20's would put his
spark event too early. Unless you assume Taim was lying to Rand. And I'm
at a loss for what that lie would gain him.
No you haven't missed a thing. It does not fit anything
we know about Taim or at least seemed to know. It makes
little sense for Taim to look 35+ and tell Rand 15 years of
channeling and only be in his late twenties. But I guess
it is posibble as Fedwin and Eben both were just kids.

Jordan also made some weird qualifications regarding sul'dam
and slowing. It seems that even those sul'dam who can be held
by the a'dam, have not crossed the line between someone who
channels and someone who can learn but does not. And they don't
slow. So apparently there is a channeling limbo for channelers
who can learn. Which seems a bit stupid if you ask me, but it is
his series.

---
JSH
David Chapman
2005-09-07 09:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@cub.kcnet.org
Jordan also made some weird qualifications regarding sul'dam
and slowing. It seems that even those sul'dam who can be held
by the a'dam, have not crossed the line between someone who
channels and someone who can learn but does not. And they don't
slow. So apparently there is a channeling limbo for channelers
who can learn. Which seems a bit stupid if you ask me, but it is
his series.
Makes sense to me, actually. Slowing is caused by working frequently with
the Power. Sul'dam do sometimes sense the power, but because they aren't
working with it themselves they don't slow.
--
Who the f--k are you calling insolent?
John Hamby
2005-09-07 23:46:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Chapman
Post by j***@cub.kcnet.org
Jordan also made some weird qualifications regarding sul'dam
and slowing. It seems that even those sul'dam who can be held
by the a'dam, have not crossed the line between someone who
channels and someone who can learn but does not. And they don't
slow. So apparently there is a channeling limbo for channelers
who can learn. Which seems a bit stupid if you ask me, but it is
his series.
Makes sense to me, actually. Slowing is caused by working frequently with
the Power. Sul'dam do sometimes sense the power, but because they aren't
working with it themselves they don't slow.
Others elsewhere have already raised the issue of Morgase and her
possibly slowing despite not being able to channel worth squat. That
might just be Jordan being a giant asshole though and yanking our chain.
If Morgase has slowed, though, it makes no sense that sul'dam that can
be collared wouldn't slow either. Has Jordan ever been pressed as to
why there are more known instances of wilders several hundred years old?
I mean the gobbley-gook Jordan was reported as spouting about Nynaeve
being born with the spark but teaching herself to channel does not lend
much credence to his lucidity this past weekend.

I don't have a problem with sul'dam not slowing except that slowing
comes after certain attributes of actual channelers. Attributes that
Jordan heavily hints to and alludes to the sul'dam experiencing over
time. Once again, it could just be yanking our chain. But being able
to sense weaves as the collared sul'dam seem to? That is more than
Egwene was able to do for a while. Recognizing the ability in another
woman? Egwene was not able to do this until she met Aviendha right?
True, these instances are allusion, but it serves no purpose for Jordan
to mislead the reader to that extant. Doesn't mean he has not, of course.

I do think that if a sul'dam has reached the point the collar thinks she
is a sparker, she can sense weaves, then I don't see how slowing is such
a incongruity. However, I think Jordan saw a way to avoid any more mssy
wilders floating around and took it. Hindsight is such a lovely thing.

Oh well. I never had anything invested other than wonder if sul'dam
experienced any form of longevity due to exposure to the OP through
their damane.

---
JSH
David Chapman
2005-09-08 12:12:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Hamby
Post by David Chapman
Post by j***@cub.kcnet.org
Jordan also made some weird qualifications regarding sul'dam
and slowing. It seems that even those sul'dam who can be held
by the a'dam, have not crossed the line between someone who
channels and someone who can learn but does not. And they don't
slow. So apparently there is a channeling limbo for channelers
who can learn. Which seems a bit stupid if you ask me, but it is
his series.
Makes sense to me, actually. Slowing is caused by working frequently
with the Power. Sul'dam do sometimes sense the power, but because they
aren't working with it themselves they don't slow.
Others elsewhere have already raised the issue of Morgase and her
possibly slowing despite not being able to channel worth squat. That
might just be Jordan being a giant asshole though and yanking our chain.
If Morgase has slowed, though, it makes no sense that sul'dam that can
be collared wouldn't slow either.
Morgase is about 38, and can pass for maybe 33; that's not even outside the
bounds of the RL gene pool. Compare to Siuan and Leane, both of whom are in
their forties but after losing the effects of binding can pass for about 20.
Post by John Hamby
Has Jordan ever been pressed as to
why there are more known instances of wilders several hundred years old?
I take it you mean why there *aren't* more known instances?

The answer I'd give to that is that most areas either ship their wilders to
the Tower or cloister them in a sub-society to keep them from the Tower's
notice. The exception is the Two Rivers, which is isolated to the point
where they don't even recognise a channeller when they see one and so
sparsely populated that in a given generation there's never more than one or
two wilders who survive sparking anyway. The women who can channel there
probably don't channel enough to slow appreciably, and the life expectancy
also seems to be high enough that living for 90 years wouldn't attract
comment.
Post by John Hamby
I don't have a problem with sul'dam not slowing except that slowing
comes after certain attributes of actual channelers. Attributes that
Jordan heavily hints to and alludes to the sul'dam experiencing over
time. Once again, it could just be yanking our chain.
Or them yanking a damane's chain. Sul'dam can only see the weaves
channelled by a damane they are linked to; that suggests it's a property of
the a'dam rather than their own abilities. And since sul'dam never channel
themselves, they wouldn't slow.

As for why they can be controlled by the a'dam after using it but not in the
testing, I can only presume that using an a'dam readies them to touch the
Source without them going through the wilder process of reaching for it
blindly and instinctively. Because they never actually *touch* it, they
don't suffer from OP addiction and they can't sense it when they're not
channelling (IOW, ever).
--
Who the f--k are you calling insolent?
Ash
2005-09-08 21:02:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Chapman
Post by John Hamby
Post by David Chapman
Post by j***@cub.kcnet.org
Jordan also made some weird qualifications regarding sul'dam
and slowing. It seems that even those sul'dam who can be held
by the a'dam, have not crossed the line between someone who
channels and someone who can learn but does not. And they don't
slow. So apparently there is a channeling limbo for channelers
who can learn. Which seems a bit stupid if you ask me, but it is
his series.
Makes sense to me, actually. Slowing is caused by working frequently
with the Power. Sul'dam do sometimes sense the power, but because they
aren't working with it themselves they don't slow.
Others elsewhere have already raised the issue of Morgase and her
possibly slowing despite not being able to channel worth squat. That
might just be Jordan being a giant asshole though and yanking our chain.
If Morgase has slowed, though, it makes no sense that sul'dam that can
be collared wouldn't slow either.
Morgase is about 38, and can pass for maybe 33; that's not even outside the
bounds of the RL gene pool. Compare to Siuan and Leane, both of whom are in
their forties but after losing the effects of binding can pass for about 20.
Post by John Hamby
Has Jordan ever been pressed as to
why there are more known instances of wilders several hundred years old?
I take it you mean why there *aren't* more known instances?
The answer I'd give to that is that most areas either ship their wilders to
the Tower or cloister them in a sub-society to keep them from the Tower's
notice. The exception is the Two Rivers, which is isolated to the point
where they don't even recognise a channeller when they see one and so
sparsely populated that in a given generation there's never more than one or
two wilders who survive sparking anyway. The women who can channel there
probably don't channel enough to slow appreciably, and the life expectancy
also seems to be high enough that living for 90 years wouldn't attract
comment.
Except for Nynaeve who seems to have already started slowing and
probably looks at least five years younger than her true age
David Chapman
2005-09-08 22:54:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ash
Post by David Chapman
The exception is the Two Rivers, which is isolated to
the point where they don't even recognise a channeller when they see one
and so sparsely populated that in a given generation there's never more
than one or two wilders who survive sparking anyway. The women who can
channel there probably don't channel enough to slow appreciably, and the
life expectancy also seems to be high enough that living for 90 years
wouldn't attract comment.
Except for Nynaeve who seems to have already started slowing and
probably looks at least five years younger than her true age
When the story begins, Nynaeve is 26. Though she does appear a year or two
younger than that, she doesn't look 21.
--
Who the f--k are you calling insolent?
Scott Lurndal
2005-09-09 01:41:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Chapman
Post by Ash
Post by David Chapman
The exception is the Two Rivers, which is isolated to
the point where they don't even recognise a channeller when they see one
and so sparsely populated that in a given generation there's never more
than one or two wilders who survive sparking anyway. The women who can
channel there probably don't channel enough to slow appreciably, and the
life expectancy also seems to be high enough that living for 90 years
wouldn't attract comment.
Except for Nynaeve who seems to have already started slowing and
probably looks at least five years younger than her true age
When the story begins, Nynaeve is 26. Though she does appear a year or two
Wasn't she 26 when introduced to Tylin in Ebou Dar? That would make her
about 24 or so in EotW, right?

scott
David Chapman
2005-09-09 08:55:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by David Chapman
When the story begins, Nynaeve is 26.
Wasn't she 26 when introduced to Tylin in Ebou Dar? That would make her
about 24 or so in EotW, right?
I thought the story began in 999NE. Assuming I'm wrong, though, she still
didn't look five years younger than whatever age she was.
--
Who the f--k are you calling insolent?
Tim Bruening
2010-03-27 04:13:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Chapman
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by David Chapman
When the story begins, Nynaeve is 26.
Wasn't she 26 when introduced to Tylin in Ebou Dar? That would make her
about 24 or so in EotW, right?
I thought the story began in 999NE. Assuming I'm wrong, though, she still
didn't look five years younger than whatever age she was.
The series started in the spring of the year 998 NE.
Ash
2005-09-09 19:03:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Chapman
Post by Ash
Post by David Chapman
The exception is the Two Rivers, which is isolated to
the point where they don't even recognise a channeller when they see one
and so sparsely populated that in a given generation there's never more
than one or two wilders who survive sparking anyway. The women who can
channel there probably don't channel enough to slow appreciably, and the
life expectancy also seems to be high enough that living for 90 years
wouldn't attract comment.
Except for Nynaeve who seems to have already started slowing and
probably looks at least five years younger than her true age
When the story begins, Nynaeve is 26. Though she does appear a year or two
younger than that, she doesn't look 21.
I am pretty sure it is said in several places she looks about 21. She
even believes herself that she has started slowing (not that this is any
guarantee of anything). Thom's comment that she is a "pretty slip of a
girl who should be flirting with the men" Doesn't seem right for someone
who looks in her mid 20s and others indicate otherwise
David Chapman
2005-09-09 22:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ash
Post by David Chapman
When the story begins, Nynaeve is 26. Though she does appear a year or
two younger than that, she doesn't look 21.
I am pretty sure it is said in several places she looks about 21. She
even believes herself that she has started slowing (not that this is any
guarantee of anything).
I'm pretty sure that it's not, and I doubt she believes she's started
slowing at the start because she doesn't know she can channel.
Post by Ash
Thom's comment that she is a "pretty slip of a
girl who should be flirting with the men" Doesn't seem right for someone
who looks in her mid 20s and others indicate otherwise
That's age altering perspective. I remember starting secondary school
(which you do at 11 in England), and the fifth years - who were 15/16 -
looked like grown men to me. Now, 20 years later, I think 16-year-olds look
like kids. Another 20 or 25 years from now, when I'm of an age with Thom,
I'm sure that 25-year-old women will look younger to me than they do now.
--
Who the f--k are you calling insolent?
Tim Bruening
2010-03-27 04:09:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ash
Post by David Chapman
Post by John Hamby
Post by David Chapman
Post by j***@cub.kcnet.org
Jordan also made some weird qualifications regarding sul'dam
and slowing. It seems that even those sul'dam who can be held
by the a'dam, have not crossed the line between someone who
channels and someone who can learn but does not. And they don't
slow. So apparently there is a channeling limbo for channelers
who can learn. Which seems a bit stupid if you ask me, but it is
his series.
Makes sense to me, actually. Slowing is caused by working frequently
with the Power. Sul'dam do sometimes sense the power, but because they
aren't working with it themselves they don't slow.
Others elsewhere have already raised the issue of Morgase and her
possibly slowing despite not being able to channel worth squat. That
might just be Jordan being a giant asshole though and yanking our chain.
If Morgase has slowed, though, it makes no sense that sul'dam that can
be collared wouldn't slow either.
Morgase is about 38, and can pass for maybe 33; that's not even outside the
bounds of the RL gene pool. Compare to Siuan and Leane, both of whom are in
their forties but after losing the effects of binding can pass for about 20.
Post by John Hamby
Has Jordan ever been pressed as to
why there are more known instances of wilders several hundred years old?
I take it you mean why there *aren't* more known instances?
The answer I'd give to that is that most areas either ship their wilders to
the Tower or cloister them in a sub-society to keep them from the Tower's
notice. The exception is the Two Rivers, which is isolated to the point
where they don't even recognise a channeller when they see one and so
sparsely populated that in a given generation there's never more than one or
two wilders who survive sparking anyway. The women who can channel there
probably don't channel enough to slow appreciably, and the life expectancy
also seems to be high enough that living for 90 years wouldn't attract
comment.
Except for Nynaeve who seems to have already started slowing and
probably looks at least five years younger than her true age
This slowing irritates her. She was looking forward to looking mature!
Davian
2005-09-08 22:23:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Chapman
Post by John Hamby
I don't have a problem with sul'dam not slowing except that slowing
comes after certain attributes of actual channelers. Attributes that
Jordan heavily hints to and alludes to the sul'dam experiencing over
time. Once again, it could just be yanking our chain.
Or them yanking a damane's chain. Sul'dam can only see the weaves
channelled by a damane they are linked to; that suggests it's a property of
the a'dam rather than their own abilities. And since sul'dam never channel
themselves, they wouldn't slow.
Actually in TGH, one of the Sul'dam says that they eventually can tell if a
damane is channeling whether they are wearing a bracelet or not.
--
Jeff

Davian / Dearic
Rajiv Mote
2005-09-08 22:34:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davian
Post by David Chapman
Post by John Hamby
I don't have a problem with sul'dam not slowing except that slowing
comes after certain attributes of actual channelers. Attributes that
Jordan heavily hints to and alludes to the sul'dam experiencing over
time. Once again, it could just be yanking our chain.
Or them yanking a damane's chain. Sul'dam can only see the weaves
channelled by a damane they are linked to; that suggests it's a property of
the a'dam rather than their own abilities. And since sul'dam never channel
themselves, they wouldn't slow.
Actually in TGH, one of the Sul'dam says that they eventually can tell if a
damane is channeling whether they are wearing a bracelet or not.
Indeed -- further, the Kin are trying to convince captive sul'dam they
can see flows. Experienced sul'dam learn to sense saidar, but they
don't actually channel it. It seems to me that slowing is a side
effect of having the Power of Creation course through your body on a
routine basis -- something sul'dam don't have, wilders have to a small
extent (they limit their channeling either to avoid notice, or because
they're Blocked) and Aes Sedai, Windfinders, Wise Ones and damane have
to a large extent.
m***@hotmail.com
2005-09-11 04:36:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rajiv Mote
Post by Davian
Actually in TGH, one of the Sul'dam says that they eventually can tell if a
damane is channeling whether they are wearing a bracelet or not.
Indeed -- further, the Kin are trying to convince captive sul'dam they
can see flows. Experienced sul'dam learn to sense saidar, but they
don't actually channel it. It seems to me that slowing is a side
effect of having the Power of Creation course through your body on a
routine basis -- something sul'dam don't have, wilders have to a small
extent (they limit their channeling either to avoid notice, or because
they're Blocked) and Aes Sedai, Windfinders, Wise Ones and damane have
to a large extent.
Wait, this leads to a discrepancy. Early on in the series we heard
sul'dam complain that there were always more sul'dam than damane. I
suppose Jordan meant this as a hint that damane were sparkers and
suldam were learners, since in each generation there are always more
people born who can learn to channel than there are destined to
channel.

But if damane slow and sul'dam don't, then your "damane pool" is going
to consist of women aged 20-800 (there was an Aiel Wise One that lived
to be 800 and who allegedly moved a mountain or some such) or 39
generations of channelers, whereas your "sul'dam pool" is only going to
consist of women aged 20-80, or 3 generations of channelers. Now,
surely that aren't more than ten learners born for each sparker. So
shouldn't there always be considerably more damane than sul'dam?
Paul Lints
2005-09-11 07:09:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Post by Rajiv Mote
Post by Davian
Actually in TGH, one of the Sul'dam says that they eventually can tell if a
damane is channeling whether they are wearing a bracelet or not.
Indeed -- further, the Kin are trying to convince captive sul'dam they
can see flows. Experienced sul'dam learn to sense saidar, but they
don't actually channel it. It seems to me that slowing is a side
effect of having the Power of Creation course through your body on a
routine basis -- something sul'dam don't have, wilders have to a small
extent (they limit their channeling either to avoid notice, or because
they're Blocked) and Aes Sedai, Windfinders, Wise Ones and damane have
to a large extent.
Wait, this leads to a discrepancy. Early on in the series we heard
sul'dam complain that there were always more sul'dam than damane. I
suppose Jordan meant this as a hint that damane were sparkers and
suldam were learners, since in each generation there are always more
people born who can learn to channel than there are destined to
channel.
But if damane slow and sul'dam don't, then your "damane pool" is going
to consist of women aged 20-800 (there was an Aiel Wise One that lived
to be 800 and who allegedly moved a mountain or some such) or 39
generations of channelers, whereas your "sul'dam pool" is only going to
consist of women aged 20-80, or 3 generations of channelers. Now,
surely that aren't more than ten learners born for each sparker. So
shouldn't there always be considerably more damane than sul'dam?
The only Wise one I can think of anywhere near what you are saying was
Mora. She was bitten by a bloodsnake and died "approaching her three
hundredth year", but looked as young as "either of you", referring to
Amys and Melanie. Check LoC, Chapter 15.

I have the strong mental impression of channelers even in the AoL living
until around 600, although I haven't been reading the book or 'net
sources enough lately to remember where the impression came from.
--
Paul W. Lints Jr. UIN: 25030144
Valid email: pwlints@*DELETEME*csupomona.edu
m***@hotmail.com
2005-09-11 17:17:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Lints
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Post by Rajiv Mote
Post by Davian
Actually in TGH, one of the Sul'dam says that they eventually can tell if a
damane is channeling whether they are wearing a bracelet or not.
Indeed -- further, the Kin are trying to convince captive sul'dam they
can see flows. Experienced sul'dam learn to sense saidar, but they
don't actually channel it. It seems to me that slowing is a side
effect of having the Power of Creation course through your body on a
routine basis -- something sul'dam don't have, wilders have to a small
extent (they limit their channeling either to avoid notice, or because
they're Blocked) and Aes Sedai, Windfinders, Wise Ones and damane have
to a large extent.
Wait, this leads to a discrepancy. Early on in the series we heard
sul'dam complain that there were always more sul'dam than damane. I
suppose Jordan meant this as a hint that damane were sparkers and
suldam were learners, since in each generation there are always more
people born who can learn to channel than there are destined to
channel.
But if damane slow and sul'dam don't, then your "damane pool" is going
to consist of women aged 20-800 (there was an Aiel Wise One that lived
to be 800 and who allegedly moved a mountain or some such) or 39
generations of channelers, whereas your "sul'dam pool" is only going to
consist of women aged 20-80, or 3 generations of channelers. Now,
surely that aren't more than ten learners born for each sparker. So
shouldn't there always be considerably more damane than sul'dam?
The only Wise one I can think of anywhere near what you are saying was
Mora. She was bitten by a bloodsnake and died "approaching her three
hundredth year", but looked as young as "either of you", referring to
Amys and Melanie. Check LoC, Chapter 15.
Could we get a quote on this? I am pretty sure she was 800 when she
died.
Post by Paul Lints
I have the strong mental impression of channelers even in the AoL living
until around 600, although I haven't been reading the book or 'net
sources enough lately to remember where the impression came from.
I know this is wrong. Moghedien said at one point, I believe in her
first real confrontation with Nyneave in Tanchico, that she was four
hundred when she was "raised" (or whatever the AoL equivalent was) and
was also "considered young for an Aes Sedai."
Paul Lints
2005-09-12 05:15:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Post by Paul Lints
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Post by Rajiv Mote
Post by Davian
Actually in TGH, one of the Sul'dam says that they eventually can tell if a
damane is channeling whether they are wearing a bracelet or not.
Indeed -- further, the Kin are trying to convince captive sul'dam they
can see flows. Experienced sul'dam learn to sense saidar, but they
don't actually channel it. It seems to me that slowing is a side
effect of having the Power of Creation course through your body on a
routine basis -- something sul'dam don't have, wilders have to a small
extent (they limit their channeling either to avoid notice, or because
they're Blocked) and Aes Sedai, Windfinders, Wise Ones and damane have
to a large extent.
Wait, this leads to a discrepancy. Early on in the series we heard
sul'dam complain that there were always more sul'dam than damane. I
suppose Jordan meant this as a hint that damane were sparkers and
suldam were learners, since in each generation there are always more
people born who can learn to channel than there are destined to
channel.
But if damane slow and sul'dam don't, then your "damane pool" is going
to consist of women aged 20-800 (there was an Aiel Wise One that lived
to be 800 and who allegedly moved a mountain or some such) or 39
generations of channelers, whereas your "sul'dam pool" is only going to
consist of women aged 20-80, or 3 generations of channelers. Now,
surely that aren't more than ten learners born for each sparker. So
shouldn't there always be considerably more damane than sul'dam?
The only Wise one I can think of anywhere near what you are saying was
Mora. She was bitten by a bloodsnake and died "approaching her three
hundredth year", but looked as young as "either of you", referring to
Amys and Melanie. Check LoC, Chapter 15.
Could we get a quote on this? I am pretty sure she was 800 when she
died.
""Nor have I from any save Mora," Bair told them, "but she was a
remarkable woman. It was said she was approaching her three hundredth
year when she died from a bloodsnake's bite, yet she looked as young as
either of you.
...
"Someday I will tell you the story of how Mora moved a mountain.
Supposedly, at least."

As I said, read LoC chapter 15. I'm not manic enough to type all the
relevant context.
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Post by Paul Lints
I have the strong mental impression of channelers even in the AoL living
until around 600, although I haven't been reading the book or 'net
sources enough lately to remember where the impression came from.
I know this is wrong. Moghedien said at one point, I believe in her
first real confrontation with Nyneave in Tanchico, that she was four
hundred when she was "raised" (or whatever the AoL equivalent was) and
was also "considered young for an Aes Sedai."
You could check Chapter 52 of TSR to find out that Moghedien was only
200 when the bore was opened, and was then considered young by Aes
Sedai. And implications were that she was "raised" well before the Bore
was drilled. I'd think that someone with 400 years of their life ahead
would still be considered young.
--
Paul W. Lints Jr. UIN: 25030144
Valid email: pwlints@*DELETEME*csupomona.edu
David Chapman
2005-09-12 10:02:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Lints
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Could we get a quote on this? I am pretty sure she was 800 when she
died.
""Nor have I from any save Mora," Bair told them, "but she was a
remarkable woman. It was said she was approaching her three hundredth
year when she died from a bloodsnake's bite, yet she looked as young as
either of you.
...
"Someday I will tell you the story of how Mora moved a mountain.
Supposedly, at least."
As I said, read LoC chapter 15. I'm not manic enough to type all the
relevant context.
Which is a shame, as it makes it clear that the mountain-moving bit was only
a story.

Any road up: if Mora was nearly 300 and looked as young as Melaine, odds are
good that she would have lived six or eight hundred years if she hadn't died
accidentally.
--
Who the f--k are you calling insolent?
m***@hotmail.com
2005-09-15 20:07:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Lints
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Post by Paul Lints
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Post by Rajiv Mote
Post by Davian
Actually in TGH, one of the Sul'dam says that they eventually can tell if a
damane is channeling whether they are wearing a bracelet or not.
Indeed -- further, the Kin are trying to convince captive sul'dam they
can see flows. Experienced sul'dam learn to sense saidar, but they
don't actually channel it. It seems to me that slowing is a side
effect of having the Power of Creation course through your body on a
routine basis -- something sul'dam don't have, wilders have to a small
extent (they limit their channeling either to avoid notice, or because
they're Blocked) and Aes Sedai, Windfinders, Wise Ones and damane have
to a large extent.
Wait, this leads to a discrepancy. Early on in the series we heard
sul'dam complain that there were always more sul'dam than damane. I
suppose Jordan meant this as a hint that damane were sparkers and
suldam were learners, since in each generation there are always more
people born who can learn to channel than there are destined to
channel.
But if damane slow and sul'dam don't, then your "damane pool" is going
to consist of women aged 20-800 (there was an Aiel Wise One that lived
to be 800 and who allegedly moved a mountain or some such) or 39
generations of channelers, whereas your "sul'dam pool" is only going to
consist of women aged 20-80, or 3 generations of channelers. Now,
surely that aren't more than ten learners born for each sparker. So
shouldn't there always be considerably more damane than sul'dam?
The only Wise one I can think of anywhere near what you are saying was
Mora. She was bitten by a bloodsnake and died "approaching her three
hundredth year", but looked as young as "either of you", referring to
Amys and Melanie. Check LoC, Chapter 15.
Could we get a quote on this? I am pretty sure she was 800 when she
died.
""Nor have I from any save Mora," Bair told them, "but she was a
remarkable woman. It was said she was approaching her three hundredth
year when she died from a bloodsnake's bite, yet she looked as young as
either of you.
...
"Someday I will tell you the story of how Mora moved a mountain.
Supposedly, at least."
As I said, read LoC chapter 15. I'm not manic enough to type all the
relevant context.
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Post by Paul Lints
I have the strong mental impression of channelers even in the AoL living
until around 600, although I haven't been reading the book or 'net
sources enough lately to remember where the impression came from.
I know this is wrong. Moghedien said at one point, I believe in her
first real confrontation with Nyneave in Tanchico, that she was four
hundred when she was "raised" (or whatever the AoL equivalent was) and
was also "considered young for an Aes Sedai."
You could check Chapter 52 of TSR to find out that Moghedien was only
200 when the bore was opened, and was then considered young by Aes
Sedai. And implications were that she was "raised" well before the Bore
was drilled. I'd think that someone with 400 years of their life ahead
would still be considered young.
Ok, I stand corrected on both counts.
Davian
2005-09-11 13:00:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Wait, this leads to a discrepancy. Early on in the series we heard
sul'dam complain that there were always more sul'dam than damane. I
suppose Jordan meant this as a hint that damane were sparkers and
suldam were learners, since in each generation there are always more
people born who can learn to channel than there are destined to
channel.
Yes, that is what Jordan was going for by saying it.
Post by m***@hotmail.com
But if damane slow and sul'dam don't, then your "damane pool" is going
to consist of women aged 20-800 (there was an Aiel Wise One that lived
to be 800 and who allegedly moved a mountain or some such) or 39
generations of channelers, whereas your "sul'dam pool" is only going to
consist of women aged 20-80, or 3 generations of channelers. Now,
surely that aren't more than ten learners born for each sparker. So
shouldn't there always be considerably more damane than sul'dam?
Not really. The percentage of people who can learn is *much* greater than
the sparkers. See the Two Rivers girls that Alanna and Verin found that can
channel. 15'ish girls who can learn, but only one sparker.

But even more than that, consider how they are used. The damanae are treated
as weapons. Valuable weapons, but still weapons. They live lives of
perpetual combat, and know nothing of Healing with the One Power. And any
opposing force would have to target them first, since they are so deadly.
That, along with the constant despair, is not a situation very conducive to a
long life. Probably very, very few of the damanae live anywhere near their
possible maximum lifespan.
--
Jeff

Davian / Dearic
m***@hotmail.com
2005-09-11 17:21:52 UTC
Permalink
Jeff said:

"Not really. The percentage of people who can learn is *much* greater
than
the sparkers. See the Two Rivers girls that Alanna and Verin found
that can
channel. 15'ish girls who can learn, but only one sparker."

Hmmm... Ok, it says in the Guide that channeling is caused by a
recessive genes and people with two channeling genes are sparkers and
those with one are learners. Which would mean that there are twice as
many learners as sparkers.

But if Verin and Alanna found 15 learners and one sparker, maybe the
Guide is not definitive in this?

Jeff also said:

"But even more than that, consider how they are used. The damanae are
treated as weapons. Valuable weapons, but still weapons. They live
lives of
perpetual combat, and know nothing of Healing with the One Power. And
any
opposing force would have to target them first, since they are so
deadly.
That, along with the constant despair, is not a situation very
conducive to a
long life. Probably very, very few of the damanae live anywhere near
their
possible maximum lifespan."

Well I think sul'dam are almost as likely to die in combat as damane,
seeing as to how they are connected physically by a short chain. The
damane death rate is probably somewhat higher, since it is possible for
a damane to die without the sul'dam dying but the reverse is not given
the one-sided nature of the link, but not too much higher.
Rich
2005-09-12 05:14:22 UTC
Permalink
mzapp said:

But if Verin and Alanna found 15 learners and one sparker, maybe the
Guide is not definitive in this?

Keep in mind that Eg, Nyn, and the girl Nyn thought of when Moir was
describing the Sparker Wasting Disorder in TEOTW all came from the Two
Rivers. There are also some younger girls, but I have no recollection
of whether the AS comment on whether any of them might be sparkers.
David Chapman
2005-09-11 19:39:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@hotmail.com
"Not really. The percentage of people who can learn is *much* greater
than
the sparkers. See the Two Rivers girls that Alanna and Verin found that can
channel. 15'ish girls who can learn, but only one sparker."
Hmmm... Ok, it says in the Guide that channeling is caused by a
recessive genes and people with two channeling genes are sparkers and
those with one are learners. Which would mean that there are twice as
many learners as sparkers.
No, it would mean that the number of sparkers is the root of the percentage
of learners in the population multiplied by the average number of children
per family. Plus, if the gene is recessive it won't necessarily pass on.

Roughly. Sort of. Don't quote me on it. But it's definitely not as simple
as two learners for one sparker.
--
Who the f--k are you calling insolent?
Jeroen Geilman
2005-09-12 23:10:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Hmmm... Ok, it says in the Guide that channeling is caused by a
recessive genes and people with two channeling genes are sparkers and
those with one are learners. Which would mean that there are twice as
many learners as sparkers.
...showing a shocking ignorance of Mendelian theory in the process.

No, it does not mean that.
Jasper Janssen
2005-09-14 14:41:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeroen Geilman
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Hmmm... Ok, it says in the Guide that channeling is caused by a
recessive genes and people with two channeling genes are sparkers and
those with one are learners. Which would mean that there are twice as
many learners as sparkers.
...showing a shocking ignorance of Mendelian theory in the process.
No, it does not mean that.
When two learners procreate, it applies. When two sparkers procreate, all
children are sparkers. When one sparker and a non-channeler procreate, all
children are learners. When a learner and a non-channeler procreate, half
the kids are learners and the other half are inert.

But without some indication of gene frequency in the overall population
*and* significant biases towards or away from certain combinations of
genotypes (which sure as hell apply here), saying anything about overall
frequency of phenotypes is impossible.

And the idea that channeling ability rests on a single gene is fairly
preposterous to start with -- unless it was genegineered into the
population.


Jasper
Tim Bruening
2010-03-27 18:49:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jasper Janssen
Post by Jeroen Geilman
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Hmmm... Ok, it says in the Guide that channeling is caused by a
recessive genes and people with two channeling genes are sparkers and
those with one are learners. Which would mean that there are twice as
many learners as sparkers.
...showing a shocking ignorance of Mendelian theory in the process.
No, it does not mean that.
When two learners procreate, it applies. When two sparkers procreate, all
children are sparkers. When one sparker and a non-channeler procreate, all
children are learners. When a learner and a non-channeler procreate, half
the kids are learners and the other half are inert.
But without some indication of gene frequency in the overall population
*and* significant biases towards or away from certain combinations of
genotypes (which sure as hell apply here), saying anything about overall
frequency of phenotypes is impossible.
And the idea that channeling ability rests on a single gene is fairly
preposterous to start with -- unless it was genegineered into the
population.
So genetic engineering of humans to be able to use the OP was the genesis of
the AoL?

André Fürstenrecht
2005-09-12 05:14:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Post by Rajiv Mote
Post by Davian
Actually in TGH, one of the Sul'dam says that they eventually can tell if a
damane is channeling whether they are wearing a bracelet or not.
Indeed -- further, the Kin are trying to convince captive sul'dam they
can see flows. Experienced sul'dam learn to sense saidar, but they
don't actually channel it. It seems to me that slowing is a side
effect of having the Power of Creation course through your body on a
routine basis -- something sul'dam don't have, wilders have to a small
extent (they limit their channeling either to avoid notice, or because
they're Blocked) and Aes Sedai, Windfinders, Wise Ones and damane have
to a large extent.
Wait, this leads to a discrepancy. Early on in the series we heard
sul'dam complain that there were always more sul'dam than damane. I
suppose Jordan meant this as a hint that damane were sparkers and
suldam were learners, since in each generation there are always more
people born who can learn to channel than there are destined to
channel.
But if damane slow and sul'dam don't, then your "damane pool" is going
to consist of women aged 20-800 (there was an Aiel Wise One that lived
to be 800 and who allegedly moved a mountain or some such) or 39
generations of channelers, whereas your "sul'dam pool" is only going to
consist of women aged 20-80, or 3 generations of channelers. Now,
surely that aren't more than ten learners born for each sparker. So
shouldn't there always be considerably more damane than sul'dam?
It could also possibly be genetic. RJ has said channeling has a
genetic component, but hasn't elaborated greatly on it other then
broad percentages. What if it goes beyond channelers are more likely
to have channelers for kids, to sparkers are more likely to have
sparkers and learners are more likely to have learners ?

On the mainland the AS have been drawing on both, with no kids for
either group. Damane don't have kids, but there's nothing to indicate
Sul'dam don't that I can remember. It's POSSIBLE that the practice of
Damane means an ever diminishing group of sparkers, BUT the learners
pool stays the same. So as time goes by the sul'dam to damane ratio
gets more and more lopsided - even taking into account damane's
extended lifespans. The sul'dam considered the main land to be a rich
hunting ground compared to seanchan, the Aes Sedai have their numbers
dwindling. This might be the reason for two very different view points
on the one population group.

Has anyone ever asked RJ this at one of the signing or the like ? I
can't remember ever seeing it so. It'd be interesting one to know the
answer to.

André
m***@hotmail.com
2005-09-11 04:54:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rajiv Mote
Post by Davian
Actually in TGH, one of the Sul'dam says that they eventually can tell if a
damane is channeling whether they are wearing a bracelet or not.
Indeed -- further, the Kin are trying to convince captive sul'dam they
can see flows. Experienced sul'dam learn to sense saidar, but they
don't actually channel it. It seems to me that slowing is a side
effect of having the Power of Creation course through your body on a
routine basis -- something sul'dam don't have, wilders have to a small
extent (they limit their channeling either to avoid notice, or because
they're Blocked) and Aes Sedai, Windfinders, Wise Ones and damane have
to a large extent.
Wait, this leads to a discrepancy. Early on in the series we heard
sul'dam complain that there were always more sul'dam than damane. I
suppose Jordan meant this as a hint that damane were sparkers and
suldam were learners, since in each generation there are always more
people born who can learn to channel than there are destined to
channel.

But if damane slow and sul'dam don't, then your "damane pool" is going
to consist of women aged 20-800 (there was an Aiel Wise One that lived
to be 800 and who allegedly moved a mountain or some such) or 39
generations of channelers, whereas your "sul'dam pool" is only going to
consist of women aged 20-80, or 3 generations of channelers. Now,
surely that aren't more than ten learners born for each sparker. So
shouldn't there always be considerably more damane than sul'dam?
David Chapman
2005-09-08 22:56:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davian
Actually in TGH, one of the Sul'dam says that they eventually can tell if
a damane is channeling whether they are wearing a bracelet or not.
Hmmm, I must have missed that. Still, I'm in agreement with Rajiv about the
cause of slowing.
--
Who the f--k are you calling insolent?
Ash
2005-09-08 21:00:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davian
Post by j***@cub.kcnet.org
[snip]
Post by Rajiv Mote
The Q&A sessions didn't reveal much. All questions about the Tower of
Ghenjei, the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn got RAFOed. Interestingly,
another question got RAFOed: someone asked if it was possible for a
male channeler, while asleep or dreaming, to be taken over by a past
personality. Hmm.
So far I have seen reports that eliminate Fain as Asmodean's
Killer, that Rand did not cut Asmodean's tie to the Dark One
(just the protection from the taint), Taim was born with the
spark and is in his late twenties and has already started to slow.
Um... did I miss something? Unless I've completely lost my mind (a real
possibility) that doesn't really fit in with what has been said about Taim
already.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I always had the impression that Taim appeared 30'ish,
which would put him (at a minimum) low to mid 30's actual age once you add in
slowing. I could have sworn Rand though he looked quite a bit older than
Rand's age.
A mid 30's true age also seems to match with Taim's statements that he was
channeling for 15 years, and had trained 4? other men during that time.
20'ish for his spark, 15 channeling. A true age of late 20's would put his
spark event too early. Unless you assume Taim was lying to Rand. And I'm
at a loss for what that lie would gain him.
He could have had a rough life and looked a few years older than he was,
looking 32 when he was 27 for example and began to slow. If Rand is a
bad judge, there is no real problem with how old he looks
The claim that he has been channeling for 15 years however, does look
inconsistant
Tim Bruening
2010-03-26 23:31:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davian
Post by j***@cub.kcnet.org
[snip]
Post by Rajiv Mote
The Q&A sessions didn't reveal much. All questions about the Tower of
Ghenjei, the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn got RAFOed. Interestingly,
another question got RAFOed: someone asked if it was possible for a
male channeler, while asleep or dreaming, to be taken over by a past
personality. Hmm.
So far I have seen reports that eliminate Fain as Asmodean's
Killer, that Rand did not cut Asmodean's tie to the Dark One
(just the protection from the taint), Taim was born with the
spark and is in his late twenties and has already started to slow.
Um... did I miss something? Unless I've completely lost my mind (a real
possibility) that doesn't really fit in with what has been said about Taim
already.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I always had the impression that Taim appeared 30'ish,
which would put him (at a minimum) low to mid 30's actual age once you add in
slowing. I could have sworn Rand though he looked quite a bit older than
Rand's age.
A mid 30's true age also seems to match with Taim's statements that he was
channeling for 15 years, and had trained 4? other men during that time.
20'ish for his spark, 15 channeling. A true age of late 20's would put his
spark event too early. Unless you assume Taim was lying to Rand. And I'm
at a loss for what that lie would gain him.
How the heck did Taim stay sane for so long?
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