FAQ, Gholam and ter'angreal

[Mordred]

I wanted to add my two cents to the discussion about gholam
vulnerabilities: in TWOT RPG, which, contrary to popular opinion, DOES
have some reliable information, it is specifically stated that gholam
are damaged by ter'angreal that protect the user from the OP, such as
Mat's medallion. So, in light of this OFFICIAL, RJ-APPROVED material,
the possibility of silver being the "damaging factor" should be
scrapped, don't you think?

Another question about the FAQ: is the Lanfear/l'enfer correspondence
RJ-verified? I mean, they may LOOK the same, but don't SOUND the same.

[Aaron]

Since RJ has proven himself an idiot on many occasions, I would say
"No, silver should not be scrapped." It's a logical choice for a
simpleton, since werewolves/vampires are typically described as being
"allergic" to silver. (I know, it's typically only werewolves. I
probably shouldn't add vampires to the list just because Van Helsing
seems to think silver will work in that god-awful movie).

-Aaron

[James Hammons]

Post by Aaron
Since RJ has proven himself an idiot on many occasions, I would say
"No, silver should not be scrapped." It's a logical choice for a
simpleton, since werewolves/vampires are typically described as being
"allergic" to silver. (I know, it's typically only werewolves. I
probably shouldn't add vampires to the list just because Van Helsing
seems to think silver will work in that god-awful movie).
-Aaron

I've never seen Van Helsing but silver has traditionally been used as
the bane of all undead. I've heard various theories about why, but the
only one that sticks in my head was a reference to it being moon metal.


--
James Hammons

[Jamie Bowden]

Post by James Hammons
I've never seen Van Helsing but silver has traditionally been used as
the bane of all undead. I've heard various theories about why, but the
only one that sticks in my head was a reference to it being moon metal.

Silver is classicly useful against lycanthropes (all forms, not just
werewolf). Undead are susceptible to fire.

Jamie Bowden

[Geoffrey Willmore]

Jamie Bowden wrote in message

Post by Jamie Bowden
Silver is classicly useful against lycanthropes (all forms, not just
werewolf). Undead are susceptible to fire.

I do not know what distinction you make, but as far as I can see
lycanthrope is the exact Greek equivalent of werewolf: lycanthrope = lukos
[is UTF-8 allowed in this newsgroup?] (= wolf) + anthropos (= man), while
werewolf = were (= man) + wolf (= wolf!).

BTW, the 1913 Webster gives them as synonyms.
QUIT

[m***@starmail.com]

It may be the literal equivalent of werewolf, but in common usage, it
applies to werebears, weretigers, wereboars, wererats,
werebutterflies.....

[Mike Timbers]

Post by m***@starmail.com
It may be the literal equivalent of werewolf, but in common usage, it
applies to werebears, weretigers, wereboars, wererats,
werebutterflies.....

were-rabbits?

[steveo]

Post by Mike Timbers

Post by m***@starmail.com
It may be the literal equivalent of werewolf, but in common usage, it
applies to werebears, weretigers, wereboars, wererats,
werebutterflies.....

were-rabbits?

Well, at least the literature is clear in this situation: the sovereign
remedy for a were-rabbit can only be the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

If you should find yourself with out it, there is but one course of action:
"run away!"

steveo

[Antonio Contreras]

Post by steveo

Post by Mike Timbers

Post by m***@starmail.com
It may be the literal equivalent of werewolf, but in common usage, it
applies to werebears, weretigers, wereboars, wererats,
werebutterflies.....

were-rabbits?

Well, at least the literature is clear in this situation: the sovereign
remedy for a were-rabbit can only be the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
"run away!"

'First shalt thou take out
the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three, no more, no less.
Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the
counting shalt be three. Four shalt thou not count, nor either
count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is
right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be
reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards
thou foe, who being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.'

Couldn't resist it.

[Aaron]

Post by Mike Timbers

Post by m***@starmail.com
It may be the literal equivalent of werewolf, but in common usage, it
applies to werebears, weretigers, wereboars, wererats,
werebutterflies.....

were-rabbits?

With sharp, pointy teeth!

I warned ye! Didn't I warn ye!

[Jamie Bowden]

Post by Geoffrey Willmore
Jamie Bowden wrote in message

Post by Jamie Bowden
Silver is classicly useful against lycanthropes (all forms, not just
werewolf). Undead are susceptible to fire.

I do not know what distinction you make, but as far as I can see
lycanthrope is the exact Greek equivalent of werewolf: lycanthrope =
lukos [is UTF-8 allowed in this newsgroup?] (= wolf) + anthropos (=
man), while werewolf = were (= man) + wolf (= wolf!).

There's another word for werecritters and I can't remember what it is.
point still stands. Silver is not something considered anymore useful
against undead than other metallic weapons.

Jamie Bowden

[James Hammons]

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by James Hammons
I've never seen Van Helsing but silver has traditionally been used as
the bane of all undead. I've heard various theories about why, but the
only one that sticks in my head was a reference to it being moon metal.

Silver is classicly useful against lycanthropes (all forms, not just
werewolf). Undead are susceptible to fire.

I'm still looking for other sources about silver being effective
against vampires that are more respected, but since Blade was mentioned
below I'll add this. In Blade 2, Blade puts a bomb on one of the bad
guys head. What kind of bomb? Silver nitrate.

--
James Hammons

[Aaron]

Post by James Hammons

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by James Hammons
I've never seen Van Helsing but silver has traditionally been used as
the bane of all undead. I've heard various theories about why, but the
only one that sticks in my head was a reference to it being moon metal.

Silver is classicly useful against lycanthropes (all forms, not just
werewolf). Undead are susceptible to fire.

I'm still looking for other sources about silver being effective
against vampires that are more respected, but since Blade was mentioned
below I'll add this. In Blade 2, Blade puts a bomb on one of the bad
guys head. What kind of bomb? Silver nitrate.
--
James Hammons

Perhaps even the undead cannot survive having their heads blown off....
They wouldn't be very dangerous, at least, would they? IIRC, in Night
of the Living Dead, the zombies could only be killed by a headshot.

-Aaron

[James Hammons]

Post by Aaron

Post by James Hammons

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by James Hammons
I've never seen Van Helsing but silver has traditionally been used as
the bane of all undead. I've heard various theories about why, but the
only one that sticks in my head was a reference to it being moon metal.

Silver is classicly useful against lycanthropes (all forms, not just
werewolf). Undead are susceptible to fire.

I'm still looking for other sources about silver being effective
against vampires that are more respected, but since Blade was mentioned
below I'll add this. In Blade 2, Blade puts a bomb on one of the bad
guys head. What kind of bomb? Silver nitrate.
--
James Hammons

Perhaps even the undead cannot survive having their heads blown off....
They wouldn't be very dangerous, at least, would they? IIRC, in Night
of the Living Dead, the zombies could only be killed by a headshot.

True, but those are garden variety zombies. Vampires are generally
stronger than zombies by an order of magnitude. And if everyday garden
variety explosives to the head could kill a vampire why did he use
silver nitrate? And while we are at it with modern stories the vampire
books of Christopher Golden, most notably "Of Saints and Shadows" &
"Angel Souls and Devil Hearts" have silver being damaging to vampires.
He also throws out just about every convention of vampirism so I doubt
he's gonna help my case but I thought I'd mention it.

--
James Hammons

[Paul Lints]

Post by James Hammons

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by James Hammons
I've never seen Van Helsing but silver has traditionally been used as
the bane of all undead. I've heard various theories about why, but the
only one that sticks in my head was a reference to it being moon metal.

Silver is classicly useful against lycanthropes (all forms, not just
werewolf). Undead are susceptible to fire.

I'm still looking for other sources about silver being effective
against vampires that are more respected, but since Blade was mentioned
below I'll add this. In Blade 2, Blade puts a bomb on one of the bad
guys head. What kind of bomb? Silver nitrate.

For the silver nitrate, you can stick to Blade 1. The old guy says that
silver nitrate (which he calls "the essence of garlic", heh) puts
vampires into anaphylactic shock, and they even give the chick in the
movie silver nitrate in a spray bottle.

[Paul Colquhoun]

On 27 Sep 2005 22:00:34 -0700, James Hammons <***@gmail.com> wrote:
|
| Jamie Bowden wrote:
|> On 23 Sep 2005, James Hammons wrote:
|>
|> > I've never seen Van Helsing but silver has traditionally been used as
|> > the bane of all undead. I've heard various theories about why, but the
|> > only one that sticks in my head was a reference to it being moon metal.
|>
|> Silver is classicly useful against lycanthropes (all forms, not just
|> werewolf). Undead are susceptible to fire.
|>
|
| I'm still looking for other sources about silver being effective
| against vampires that are more respected, but since Blade was mentioned
| below I'll add this. In Blade 2, Blade puts a bomb on one of the bad
| guys head. What kind of bomb? Silver nitrate.


The "Anita Blake: Vampire Hunter" series by Laurell K. Hamilton has silver
being effective against vampires. At one point they find a vampire still
asleep in it's coffin and kill it with a silver nitrate injection.

Of course, at other times they resort to shotguns with silver plated pelets.

Silver (or silver coated/silver alloy) weapons cause wounds that take
the undead much longer to heal than normal weapons do, almost as long
as normal humans take to heal.

Also, crosses used as anti-vampire weapons need to be propperly blessed,
no quick fix with a hastily made cross, and are traditionally made from silver.

Simply having contact with silver is painful to lycanthropes. The books
actually have a few lycanthropes who are into S&M and have several silver
piercings, just for the continual low-level pain.

[a***@gmail.com]

Post by Paul Colquhoun
|
|>
|> > I've never seen Van Helsing but silver has traditionally been used as
|> > the bane of all undead. I've heard various theories about why, but the
|> > only one that sticks in my head was a reference to it being moon metal.
|>
|> Silver is classicly useful against lycanthropes (all forms, not just
|> werewolf). Undead are susceptible to fire.
|>
|
| I'm still looking for other sources about silver being effective
| against vampires that are more respected, but since Blade was mentioned
| below I'll add this. In Blade 2, Blade puts a bomb on one of the bad
| guys head. What kind of bomb? Silver nitrate.
The "Anita Blake: Vampire Hunter" series by Laurell K. Hamilton has silver
being effective against vampires. At one point they find a vampire still
asleep in it's coffin and kill it with a silver nitrate injection.
Of course, at other times they resort to shotguns with silver plated pelets.
Silver (or silver coated/silver alloy) weapons cause wounds that take
the undead much longer to heal than normal weapons do, almost as long
as normal humans take to heal.
Also, crosses used as anti-vampire weapons need to be propperly blessed,
no quick fix with a hastily made cross, and are traditionally made from silver.
Simply having contact with silver is painful to lycanthropes. The books
actually have a few lycanthropes who are into S&M and have several silver
piercings, just for the continual low-level pain.
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro

There was a time that I really enjoyed those books. Then Anita started
being a totally powergaming (as in the RPG sense) slut and the books
became much less interesting. I do have to admit that LKH writes a
good sadmo-masochistic sex scene every once in a while; for someone
with slightly deviant tastes it's nice to see that I'm not alone...

[Jasper Janssen]

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:09:04 GMT, Paul Colquhoun

Post by Paul Colquhoun
Simply having contact with silver is painful to lycanthropes. The books
actually have a few lycanthropes who are into S&M and have several silver
piercings, just for the continual low-level pain.

See, that sentence right there is enough to turn me off the books
entirely.

Jasper

[Jennifer Winters]

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by James Hammons
I've never seen Van Helsing but silver has traditionally been used as
the bane of all undead. I've heard various theories about why, but the
only one that sticks in my head was a reference to it being moon metal.

Silver is classicly useful against lycanthropes (all forms, not just
werewolf). Undead are susceptible to fire.

And crosses, garlic, holy water, and hosts. Haven't you ever read
_Dracula_? Sheesh, kids these days.

[Jamie Bowden]

Post by James Hammons

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by James Hammons
I've never seen Van Helsing but silver has traditionally been used

as

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by James Hammons
the bane of all undead. I've heard various theories about why,

but the

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by James Hammons
only one that sticks in my head was a reference to it being moon

metal.

Post by Jamie Bowden
Silver is classicly useful against lycanthropes (all forms, not just
werewolf). Undead are susceptible to fire.

And crosses, garlic, holy water, and hosts. Haven't you ever read
_Dracula_? Sheesh, kids these days.

He's not just talking about Vampires.

Jamie Bowden

[James Hammons]

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by James Hammons

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by James Hammons
I've never seen Van Helsing but silver has traditionally been used

as

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by James Hammons
the bane of all undead. I've heard various theories about why,

but the

Post by Jamie Bowden

Post by James Hammons
only one that sticks in my head was a reference to it being moon

metal.

Post by Jamie Bowden
Silver is classicly useful against lycanthropes (all forms, not just
werewolf). Undead are susceptible to fire.

And crosses, garlic, holy water, and hosts. Haven't you ever read
_Dracula_? Sheesh, kids these days.

He's not just talking about Vampires.

It has been extremely hard to find information about silver and its
effects on the undead without running into a site about GURPS or
Vampire: The Masquerade. All that I have found have corroborated the
stance that silver is effective against vampires but didn't back my
stance about it being effective against undead. It's effective against
*evil*. The most concise website that I found is here
http://www.zerotime.com/night/destroy.htm and they state

"Silver: When most people think of silver weapons killing monsters they
think of silver bullets and werewolves, however, silver stakes, spears
and daggers have also been known to slow down and kill vampires. Silver
is considered to be a metal of purity and has been used for protection
against evil in almost every world culture throughout history. Silver
can be melted down to form amulets, jewelry, bullets, daggers and
religious symbols such as crucifixes. Silver amulets and daggers can be
put into the ground above the grave to prevent evil spirits from
escaping. Silver nails drove into coffin lids are said to help prevent
evil spirits from rising from the grave."

--
James Hammons

[Paul Lints]

Post by Aaron
Since RJ has proven himself an idiot on many occasions, I would say
"No, silver should not be scrapped." It's a logical choice for a
simpleton, since werewolves/vampires are typically described as being
"allergic" to silver. (I know, it's typically only werewolves. I
probably shouldn't add vampires to the list just because Van Helsing
seems to think silver will work in that god-awful movie).

Don't leave out Blade. Now there's a quality vampire flick.

[Aaron]

Agreed.

*hopes Paul wasn't being sarcastic*

How about Queen of the Damned? The movie was far worse than the book,
by a much greater margin than average.

I also forgot Underworld, another terrible movie, but I can't remember
if silver was only used for Werewolves there or not. I think so. They
had some weird fluid that was trapped light for vampires, IIRC.

-Aaron

[P***@gmail.com]

Post by Aaron
Agreed.
*hopes Paul wasn't being sarcastic*

tbh, I'm torn with blade. I really enjoyed watching it, but readily
admit that the plot and most of the elements of the story sucked. Go
figure.

Post by Aaron
How about Queen of the Damned? The movie was far worse than the book,
by a much greater margin than average.

There aren't words to describe the travesty.

Post by Aaron
I also forgot Underworld, another terrible movie, but I can't remember
if silver was only used for Werewolves there or not. I think so. They
had some weird fluid that was trapped light for vampires, IIRC.

Silver was only for wereolves. The vampire thing was a military tracer
round, which somehow qualifies as sunlight. At least Kate Beckinsdale
looked rather good in leather.

[Aaron]

Post by P***@gmail.com

Post by Aaron
Agreed.
*hopes Paul wasn't being sarcastic*

tbh, I'm torn with blade. I really enjoyed watching it, but readily
admit that the plot and most of the elements of the story sucked. Go
figure.

My sentiments exactly. I haven't seen the later installments: are they
worth the time?

Post by P***@gmail.com

Post by Aaron
How about Queen of the Damned? The movie was far worse than the book,
by a much greater margin than average.

There aren't words to describe the travesty.

Heh. And, they left out the best part! (the brain and heart eating)

Post by P***@gmail.com

Post by Aaron
I also forgot Underworld, another terrible movie, but I can't remember
if silver was only used for Werewolves there or not. I think so. They
had some weird fluid that was trapped light for vampires, IIRC.

Silver was only for wereolves. The vampire thing was a military tracer
round, which somehow qualifies as sunlight. At least Kate Beckinsdale
looked rather good in leather.

Not nearly good enough to save the movie, however.

[Dan Weiner]

Post by Aaron

Post by P***@gmail.com
Silver was only for wereolves. The vampire thing was a military tracer
round, which somehow qualifies as sunlight. At least Kate Beckinsdale
looked rather good in leather.

Not nearly good enough to save the movie, however.

It was pretty near.

[Jasper Janssen]

[Underworld]

Post by Aaron

Post by P***@gmail.com
Silver was only for wereolves. The vampire thing was a military tracer
round, which somehow qualifies as sunlight. At least Kate Beckinsdale
looked rather good in leather.

Not nearly good enough to save the movie, however.

Heathen. There was a movie wrapped around all that leather?


Jasper

[Aaron]

Post by Jasper Janssen
[Underworld]

Post by Aaron

Post by P***@gmail.com
Silver was only for wereolves. The vampire thing was a military tracer
round, which somehow qualifies as sunlight. At least Kate Beckinsdale
looked rather good in leather.

Not nearly good enough to save the movie, however.

Heathen. There was a movie wrapped around all that leather?
Jasper

Fair enough. I'll never forget the guy in the back of the theater who
laughed at most of the scenes...I almost wanted to join him, but I felt
more like crying, with ticket prices being what they are.

Still, that doesn't match the horrific 30 minute cry-athon that
concluded the Lord of the Rings trilogy. The wife and I walked out,
unable to take it anymore, and she likes herself a good cry every now
and then. At least they didn't make it longer in the extended version.
They should have just ended it where Bilbo said he should have liked to
hold his old ring one last time.

-Aaron

-Aaron

[Leigh Butler]

Post by Mordred
I wanted to add my two cents to the discussion about gholam
vulnerabilities: in TWOT RPG, which, contrary to popular opinion, DOES
have some reliable information, it is specifically stated that gholam
are damaged by ter'angreal that protect the user from the OP, such as
Mat's medallion. So, in light of this OFFICIAL, RJ-APPROVED material,
the possibility of silver being the "damaging factor" should be
scrapped, don't you think?

Not really.

A lot of things stay in the FAQ even if they're monumentally stupid
ideas, merely to keep people from bringing them up over and over again.

That said, I don't think that the "silver" idea is necessarily all that
stupid, anyway, at least not initially; silver does have a valid
mythological background for being a bane to evil/magical things. The
idea is only lame once you think it through logically.

Post by Mordred
Another question about the FAQ: is the Lanfear/l'enfer correspondence
RJ-verified?

No. Many of the entries in the Sources section aren't; they're just
reasonable speculations.

Post by Mordred
I mean, they may LOOK the same, but don't SOUND the same.

Really? They sound pretty similar to me; the only change is in vowel
pronounciation. Even the stresses are the same.

"Lahn-FEER" vs. "Lahn-FAIR". RJ does that a lot; keeps the skeleton of
a name and mangles the vowels and/or the stresses to make it
different-yet-the-same.

"Guinevere" and "Egwene al'Vere". "Armageddon" and "Tarmon Gaidon". And
so on.

[Tom Kelsall]

On 23 Sep 2005 11:07:29 -0700, the keys started rattling, and "Leigh

Post by Leigh Butler

Post by Mordred
Another question about the FAQ: is the Lanfear/l'enfer correspondence
RJ-verified?

"Lahn-FEER" vs. "Lahn-FAIR". RJ does that a lot; keeps the skeleton of
a name and

<indiscriminate snippage>

Would someone please tell me (just this once don't make me dig through
the FAQ) what or who is (a) l'enfer?

[Rajiv Mote]

Post by Tom Kelsall
On 23 Sep 2005 11:07:29 -0700, the keys started rattling, and "Leigh

Post by Leigh Butler

Post by Mordred
Another question about the FAQ: is the Lanfear/l'enfer correspondence
RJ-verified?

"Lahn-FEER" vs. "Lahn-FAIR". RJ does that a lot; keeps the skeleton of
a name and

<indiscriminate snippage>
Would someone please tell me (just this once don't make me dig through
the FAQ) what or who is (a) l'enfer?

"L'enfer" is "Hell" in French. IMO, it's a bit of a stretch, but hey,
why not? "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned."

Much more appropriate if that character's name was derived from Lilith,
the spurned first wife of Adam -- or even from Eve (since she and
Biedomon were responsible for WoTworld's "original sin"). But that's
neither here nor there.

-- Rajiv

[Tom Kelsall]

On 23 Sep 2005 14:31:55 -0700, the keys started rattling, and "Rajiv

Post by Rajiv Mote

Post by Tom Kelsall
Would someone please tell me (just this once don't make me dig through
the FAQ) what or who is (a) l'enfer?

"L'enfer" is "Hell" in French. IMO, it's a bit of a stretch, but hey,
why not? "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned."

Thanks Rajiv :)

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Rajiv Mote

Post by Tom Kelsall
On 23 Sep 2005 11:07:29 -0700, the keys started rattling, and "Leigh

Post by Leigh Butler

Post by Mordred
Another question about the FAQ: is the Lanfear/l'enfer correspondence
RJ-verified?

"Lahn-FEER" vs. "Lahn-FAIR". RJ does that a lot; keeps the skeleton of
a name and

<indiscriminate snippage>
Would someone please tell me (just this once don't make me dig through
the FAQ) what or who is (a) l'enfer?

"L'enfer" is "Hell" in French. IMO, it's a bit of a stretch, but hey,
why not? "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned."
Much more appropriate if that character's name was derived from Lilith,
the spurned first wife of Adam -- or even from Eve (since she and
Biedomon were responsible for WoTworld's "original sin"). But that's
neither here nor there.

Lanfear is the Daughter of the Night, so she's close to Eve.