Discussion:
Alana
(too old to reply)
Brian Hamner
2004-09-01 13:57:09 UTC
Permalink
Could Alana be Mesana in disguise?
Bryce
2004-09-01 14:49:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Hamner
Could Alana be Mesana in disguise?
I doubt it, I would think Rand, being bonded to her, would know
something was wrong...

--
now with more cowbell
Scott Lurndal
2004-09-01 23:32:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Hamner
Could Alana be Mesana in disguise?
No.

Alana appears as an Accepted in NStN.

scott
Daniel Holm
2004-09-02 08:48:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Brian Hamner
Could Alana be Mesana in disguise?
No.
Alana appears as an Accepted in NStN.
scott
That's not proof. The Forsaken could look a lot like Alanna and, using
Compulsion-gained knowledge, act as her.

There's not a precedent for a Forsaken emulating an existing person,
but it can happen.

That said, the reason Alanna cannot be a Forsaken is pretty clear:
She's bonded to Rand. If Alanna was Mesaana, I think Lews Therin would
scream in Rand's head.

--Daniel Holm
Chucky & Janica
2004-09-02 13:41:23 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, 2 Sep 2004 01:48:37 -0700 - there was
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Scott Lurndal
Alana appears as an Accepted in NStN.
That's not proof. The Forsaken could look a lot like Alanna and, using
Compulsion-gained knowledge, act as her.
Back in the time of "New Spring: the Novel", I don't think the
Forsaken were free. Aginor and Balthamel were the first to get free,
and that was roughly twenty years later, during "The Eye of the
World". Except Ishamael, of course, who was free all along apparently
and who I won't be surprised to see die at least once more in the
prequels, so he can make another amazing comeback for Book One.

If a female Forsaken turns out to be free and posing as Alanna back in
the prequels, there's a huge fuck-up somewhere.

Unless, of course, you mean that Alanna really existed before, and was
then bumped off by Mesaana, who has been wearing her skin like an
Alanna-suit ever since.

We'll know for sure as soon as Alanna begins craving sugar water.









C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Daniel Holm
2004-09-02 19:24:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, 2 Sep 2004 01:48:37 -0700 - there was
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Scott Lurndal
Alana appears as an Accepted in NStN.
That's not proof. The Forsaken could look a lot like Alanna and, using
Compulsion-gained knowledge, act as her.
Back in the time of "New Spring: the Novel", I don't think the
Forsaken were free. Aginor and Balthamel were the first to get free,
and that was roughly twenty years later, during "The Eye of the
World". Except Ishamael, of course, who was free all along apparently
and who I won't be surprised to see die at least once more in the
prequels, so he can make another amazing comeback for Book One.
If a female Forsaken turns out to be free and posing as Alanna back in
the prequels, there's a huge fuck-up somewhere.
I didn't mean in the prequels. I was saying that Mesaana could have
taken Alanna's spot _afterwards_ (using Compulsion-gained knowledge
and the Mirror of Mists).

--Daniel Holm
Davian
2004-09-03 05:53:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, 2 Sep 2004 01:48:37 -0700 - there was
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Scott Lurndal
Alana appears as an Accepted in NStN.
That's not proof. The Forsaken could look a lot like Alanna and, using
Compulsion-gained knowledge, act as her.
If a female Forsaken turns out to be free and posing as Alanna back in
the prequels, there's a huge fuck-up somewhere.
I didn't mean in the prequels. I was saying that Mesaana could have
taken Alanna's spot _afterwards_ (using Compulsion-gained knowledge
and the Mirror of Mists).
For about the ten millionth time, Illusion just doesn't work like that.
Using it to change a Forsaken's physical appearance enough that Lews Therin
wouldn't recognize them is a big change. And big changes cannot stand up to
being touched. The illusion will falter if they have physical contact.
And Allana has definitely been touched while people were watching. When
she took Rand's head and bonded him stands out in my mind for one place.

In order for Mesanna, or any other Forsaken, to be impersonating Allana
close enough to fool people who knew her before, they would have had to
begin with an uncanny resemblence to her in thier undisguised state. Which
is more coincidence than Jordan can reasonably explain away, IMO. (Not to
mention the problem of convincing her Warders...)
--
Jeff

Davian / Dearic
Chucky & Janica
2004-09-03 14:56:38 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, Fri, 03 Sep 2004 05:53:09 GMT - there
was this guy, or something, called "Davian"
Post by Davian
In order for Mesanna, or any other Forsaken, to be impersonating Allana
close enough to fool people who knew her before, they would have had to
begin with an uncanny resemblence to her in thier undisguised state. Which
is more coincidence than Jordan can reasonably explain away, IMO. (Not to
mention the problem of convincing her Warders...)
This raises more points.

If one of the Forsaken has managed to bond the Dragon, and is now just
sitting around crying, it just confirms something I've known about the
Forsaken for a long time. They are colossal fuck-ups.

And why didn't Ishamael bond Rand instead of laughing at him and
burning chairs in Book One?

He is a colossal fuck-up.

Let's resurrect him.

GOOD IDEA, MISTER HANKY.






C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Joe
2004-09-04 07:56:45 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: Alana
Date: 9/3/2004 7:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Once upon a time - for example, Fri, 03 Sep 2004 05:53:09 GMT - there
was this guy, or something, called "Davian"
Post by Davian
In order for Mesanna, or any other Forsaken, to be impersonating Allana
close enough to fool people who knew her before, they would have had to
begin with an uncanny resemblence to her in thier undisguised state. Which
is more coincidence than Jordan can reasonably explain away, IMO. (Not to
mention the problem of convincing her Warders...)
This raises more points.
If one of the Forsaken has managed to bond the Dragon, and is now just
sitting around crying, it just confirms something I've known about the
Forsaken for a long time. They are colossal fuck-ups.
And why didn't Ishamael bond Rand instead of laughing at him and
burning chairs in Book One?
He is a colossal fuck-up.
Let's resurrect him.
GOOD IDEA, MISTER HANKY.
C&J
Actually, every FS (ishydin included) who has encountered/witnessed the Warder
Bond is amazed because there was no such thing around in the Age of Legends
(Their time).. so just from that fact alone it is unlikely that Alanna is
Mesanna, because Alanna had warders already.

~~~~~~~
Joe.
I am just a figment of your imagination.
I am disappointed that you didn't do a better job.
Chucky & Janica
2004-09-04 13:01:50 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, 04 Sep 2004 07:56:45 GMT - there was
Post by Joe
Actually, every FS (ishydin included) who has encountered/witnessed the Warder
Bond is amazed because there was no such thing around in the Age of Legends
(Their time).. so just from that fact alone it is unlikely that Alanna is
Mesanna, because Alanna had warders already.
Good point, I'm sure this is why Ishamael didn't do it.

The bond must have been forgotten as of the Age of Legends, and then
remembered again later. Because Birgitte remembers there being a
female warder at some stage in the past.






C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Daniel Holm
2004-09-05 16:14:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, 04 Sep 2004 07:56:45 GMT - there was
Post by Joe
Actually, every FS (ishydin included) who has encountered/witnessed the Warder
Bond is amazed because there was no such thing around in the Age of Legends
(Their time).. so just from that fact alone it is unlikely that Alanna is
Mesanna, because Alanna had warders already.
Good point, I'm sure this is why Ishamael didn't do it.
The bond must have been forgotten as of the Age of Legends, and then
remembered again later. Because Birgitte remembers there being a
female warder at some stage in the past.
This happens most likely during the 3,000-some years between the Breaking of
the World and the present. She has certainly lived a few lives in that
interval--she mentions a few events (an Aes Sedai with a Warder who was
forced upon her as she took a different man as a Warder before she completed
the tests for the shawl, for instance. In the present, Elayne notes that the
same persons had inspired stories where the two were lovers, rather than
forced partners).

--Daniel Holm
Chucky & Janica
2004-09-06 13:49:07 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:14:40 +0200 - there
was this guy, or something, called "Daniel Holm"
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Chucky & Janica
The bond must have been forgotten as of the Age of Legends, and then
remembered again later. Because Birgitte remembers there being a
female warder at some stage in the past.
This happens most likely during the 3,000-some years between the Breaking of
the World and the present. She has certainly lived a few lives in that
interval--she mentions a few events (an Aes Sedai with a Warder who was
forced upon her as she took a different man as a Warder before she completed
the tests for the shawl, for instance. In the present, Elayne notes that the
same persons had inspired stories where the two were lovers, rather than
forced partners).
But if this was the case, surely there'd be some record of female
warders in the White Tower? The way she talked about it, I was pretty
sure she was talking about some long-gone time.

You know, like wolfbrothers.






C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Daniel Holm
2004-09-06 15:14:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:14:40 +0200 - there
was this guy, or something, called "Daniel Holm"
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Chucky & Janica
The bond must have been forgotten as of the Age of Legends, and then
remembered again later. Because Birgitte remembers there being a
female warder at some stage in the past.
This happens most likely during the 3,000-some years between the Breaking of
the World and the present. She has certainly lived a few lives in that
interval--she mentions a few events (an Aes Sedai with a Warder who was
forced upon her as she took a different man as a Warder before she completed
the tests for the shawl, for instance. In the present, Elayne notes that the
same persons had inspired stories where the two were lovers, rather than
forced partners).
But if this was the case, surely there'd be some record of female
warders in the White Tower? The way she talked about it, I was pretty
sure she was talking about some long-gone time.
You know, like wolfbrothers.
There could very well be records of it in the White Tower. There are quite a
few hidden ones, after all.

--Daniel Holm
Chucky & Janica
2004-09-07 14:16:15 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:14:02 +0200 - there
was this guy, or something, called "Daniel Holm"
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Chucky & Janica
But if this was the case, surely there'd be some record of female
warders in the White Tower? The way she talked about it, I was pretty
sure she was talking about some long-gone time.
You know, like wolfbrothers.
There could very well be records of it in the White Tower. There are quite a
few hidden ones, after all.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens when a real sister
finds out about Birgitte.

It's got to happen sometime, right?






C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Michael Meier
2004-09-08 10:06:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky & Janica
I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens when a real sister
finds out about Birgitte.
It's got to happen sometime, right?
C&J
I think that already happened.
Quote from CoS [Tom talking to Mat]
Jaem took to her right away like a younger sister, but Vandene and
Adeleas... " He sighed heavily. "Neither was very pleased Elayne had
already chosen a Warder - apparently most Aes Sedai go years before
finding one - and they especially were not pleased she chose a woman.
And their not being pleased has Elayne's back up even more."


Michael
--
valid mail:
***@gmx.net
Chucky & Janica
2004-09-08 13:17:42 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, Wed, 08 Sep 2004 12:06:16 +0200 -
there was this guy, or something, called Michael Meier
Post by Michael Meier
Jaem took to her right away like a younger sister, but Vandene and
Adeleas... " He sighed heavily. "Neither was very pleased Elayne had
already chosen a Warder - apparently most Aes Sedai go years before
finding one - and they especially were not pleased she chose a woman.
And their not being pleased has Elayne's back up even more."
Right, right. I forgot about them. But Adelas and Vandene don't really
count as "Aes Sedai finding out." I was thinking more about a bunch of
straight-and-narrows from the Tower itself.






C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Aaron Sanders
2004-09-09 15:27:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, Wed, 08 Sep 2004 12:06:16 +0200 -
there was this guy, or something, called Michael Meier
Post by Michael Meier
Jaem took to her right away like a younger sister, but Vandene and
Adeleas... " He sighed heavily. "Neither was very pleased Elayne had
already chosen a Warder - apparently most Aes Sedai go years before
finding one - and they especially were not pleased she chose a woman.
And their not being pleased has Elayne's back up even more."
Right, right. I forgot about them. But Adelas and Vandene don't really
count as "Aes Sedai finding out." I was thinking more about a bunch of
straight-and-narrows from the Tower itself.
When are *they* going to find out, short of once the tower is
reunited? Aes Sedai (plural) know, and I'm sure A&V told other Aes
Sedai.

Since you didn't reply to my other post, I'll said it again: RAFO ;P
Post by Chucky & Janica
C&J
-Aaron
Chucky & Janica
2004-09-10 14:53:53 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, 9 Sep 2004 08:27:59 -0700 - there was
Post by Aaron Sanders
Post by Chucky & Janica
Post by Michael Meier
Jaem took to her right away like a younger sister, but Vandene and
Adeleas... " He sighed heavily. "Neither was very pleased Elayne had
already chosen a Warder - apparently most Aes Sedai go years before
finding one - and they especially were not pleased she chose a woman.
And their not being pleased has Elayne's back up even more."
Right, right. I forgot about them. But Adelas and Vandene don't really
count as "Aes Sedai finding out." I was thinking more about a bunch of
straight-and-narrows from the Tower itself.
When are *they* going to find out, short of once the tower is
reunited?
That's another thing. How bloody long is *that* taking? Talk to each
other and get your shit together, you morons, I know the bad guys are
hopeless, but sooner or later all those Shadowspawn have got to start
spilling over. Any year now.
Post by Aaron Sanders
Aes Sedai (plural) know, and I'm sure A&V told other Aes
Sedai.
When would they have done that? When one of them was being killed?

And seriously. Since when do Aes Sedai share information?

"Oh, Alanna, your dress is on fire and your hair is catching."

Yeah, right.
Post by Aaron Sanders
Since you didn't reply to my other post, I'll said it again: RAFO ;P
Is there a Village People dance to go with that?

If so, do it. I'll be the policeman, Jordan can be the Indian, and
Harriet can be the construction worker. So that leaves you with the
biker. And I want to see ass-cheek holes in those chaps. You hear me?
Ass-cheek holes.








C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Aaron Sanders
2004-09-08 17:52:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:14:02 +0200 - there
was this guy, or something, called "Daniel Holm"
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Chucky & Janica
But if this was the case, surely there'd be some record of female
warders in the White Tower? The way she talked about it, I was pretty
sure she was talking about some long-gone time.
You know, like wolfbrothers.
There could very well be records of it in the White Tower. There are quite a
few hidden ones, after all.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens when a real sister
finds out about Birgitte.
It's got to happen sometime, right?
Hey, I got an idea. RAFO. (see the other reply to this)

=P
Post by Chucky & Janica
C&J
-Aaron
Chucky & Janica
2004-09-10 14:55:00 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, 8 Sep 2004 10:52:03 -0700 - there was
Post by Aaron Sanders
Post by Chucky & Janica
I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens when a real sister
finds out about Birgitte.
It's got to happen sometime, right?
Hey, I got an idea. RAFO. (see the other reply to this)
Like I said (and I didn't reply, Mister Attentive, because I wasn't
posting at all yesterday), it's got to happen sometime.

Now if only we had something to R, we could all FO, and be a lot H-er.





C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Daniel Holm
2004-09-04 09:35:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davian
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, 2 Sep 2004 01:48:37 -0700 - there was
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Scott Lurndal
Alana appears as an Accepted in NStN.
That's not proof. The Forsaken could look a lot like Alanna and, using
Compulsion-gained knowledge, act as her.
If a female Forsaken turns out to be free and posing as Alanna back in
the prequels, there's a huge fuck-up somewhere.
I didn't mean in the prequels. I was saying that Mesaana could have
taken Alanna's spot _afterwards_ (using Compulsion-gained knowledge
and the Mirror of Mists).
For about the ten millionth time, Illusion just doesn't work like that.
Using it to change a Forsaken's physical appearance enough that Lews Therin
wouldn't recognize them is a big change. And big changes cannot stand up to
being touched. The illusion will falter if they have physical contact.
And Allana has definitely been touched while people were watching. When
she took Rand's head and bonded him stands out in my mind for one place.
Ever thought about using Illusion to change skin color? Eye color? The
finer details in the face will *not* be broken by touch. Only if it's
something as significant as height, girth or hair will the Mirror of
Mists not work if interacted with.

--Daniel Holm
Davian
2004-09-04 16:06:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Davian
For about the ten millionth time, Illusion just doesn't work like that.
Using it to change a Forsaken's physical appearance enough that Lews Therin
wouldn't recognize them is a big change. And big changes cannot stand up to
being touched. The illusion will falter if they have physical contact.
And Allana has definitely been touched while people were watching.
When
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Davian
she took Rand's head and bonded him stands out in my mind for one place.
Ever thought about using Illusion to change skin color? Eye color? The
finer details in the face will *not* be broken by touch. Only if it's
something as significant as height, girth or hair will the Mirror of
Mists not work if interacted with.
Lews Therin says "Light, it's Mesanna! Must... kill... now..." then a hush
fell over Lews Therin and he ceased attempting to sieze the Source. "Oh
wait. Mesanna had green eyes. Carry on."
--
Jeff

Davian / Dearic
Daniel Holm
2004-09-05 04:53:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Davian
For about the ten millionth time, Illusion just doesn't work like that.
Using it to change a Forsaken's physical appearance enough that Lews
Therin
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Davian
wouldn't recognize them is a big change. And big changes cannot stand
up to
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Davian
being touched. The illusion will falter if they have physical contact.
And Allana has definitely been touched while people were watching.
When
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Davian
she took Rand's head and bonded him stands out in my mind for one place.
Ever thought about using Illusion to change skin color? Eye color? The
finer details in the face will *not* be broken by touch. Only if it's
something as significant as height, girth or hair will the Mirror of
Mists not work if interacted with.
Lews Therin says "Light, it's Mesanna! Must... kill... now..." then a hush
fell over Lews Therin and he ceased attempting to sieze the Source. "Oh
wait. Mesanna had green eyes. Carry on."
Again, fine details will NOT disappear when interacted with, unless
they contrast violently upon what is already there. You could function
just fine without ever having someone touch your face, and as such,
you could function just fine disguised as someone else, provided that
the height, girth and hair length (and other such details) is
approximately the same. They don't have to look anything *alike* aside
from that. Anything else can be disguised easily, using both the
Mirror of Mists and regular disguising techniques for what the MoM
can't cover.

--Daniel Holm
Chucky & Janica
2004-09-03 14:54:39 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, 2 Sep 2004 12:24:35 -0700 - there was
Post by Daniel Holm
Post by Chucky & Janica
If a female Forsaken turns out to be free and posing as Alanna back in
the prequels, there's a huge fuck-up somewhere.
I didn't mean in the prequels. I was saying that Mesaana could have
taken Alanna's spot _afterwards_ (using Compulsion-gained knowledge
and the Mirror of Mists).
Like I said, and you snipped.

Right.

But was this before or after she bonded Rand?






C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Mike De Palatis
2004-09-02 21:02:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Hamner
Could Alana be Mesana in disguise?
Do you have a basis for this question?
Brian Hamner
2004-09-03 14:10:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike De Palatis
Post by Brian Hamner
Could Alana be Mesana in disguise?
Do you have a basis for this question?
Yes I do. Alana is like Verin, up to her own agenda. In the Shadow
Rising, Verin warns Perrin against her. Then later in the book, since
he is paranoid about Verin's warning, he asks Loial to spy for him.
Loial sends word that Alana was missing two different times. And thats
it. It's never touched upon again, what she may have been doing, even
though this would be just about the perfect timing for her to open the
waygate that Loial locked and let the trollocs through. IT never says
anywhere who it was that opened the waygate for sure, it only hints
that Isam(slayer) was supposed to bring more trollocs. I think Alana
did it for several optional reasons.
1 she is a darkfriend
2 she is a forsaken
3 she is trying to force events(like perrin uniting the countryside
under his rule) and just didnt care about the methods.

my bet is that she is a forsaken and since Mesaana is clearly
unaccounted for.....

and for those who would say Alana isnt in the tower when Mesaana is,
she could have traveled.....
I know its a theory in progress.
Chucky & Janica
2004-09-03 14:57:22 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, 3 Sep 2004 07:10:56 -0700 - there was
this guy, or something, called ***@hotmail.com (Brian
Hamner), and they made us all feel better by saying the following
Post by Brian Hamner
3 she is trying to force events(like perrin uniting the countryside
under his rule) and just didnt care about the methods.
Yes. Alanna is Aes Sedai. Your point?

*grin*





C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Bryce
2004-09-03 15:09:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Hamner
Post by Mike De Palatis
Post by Brian Hamner
Could Alana be Mesana in disguise?
Do you have a basis for this question?
Yes I do. Alana is like Verin, up to her own agenda. In the Shadow
Rising, Verin warns Perrin against her.
I think this says more about Verin than it does about Alana. Its no
secret that Aes Sedi do things for their own reasons. But I highly
doubt that Alana would have bonded Rand, without him knowing something
was wrong with her.

--
now with more cowbell
Bryce
2004-09-03 17:24:18 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 11:09:58 -0400, Bryce
Post by Bryce
Aes Sedi
now, if only I could spell Aes Sedai....

--
now with more cowbell
jewahe
2004-09-03 03:12:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Hamner
Could Alana be Mesana in disguise?
I think the general perception is that because Mesaana is in the White
Tower, she must be posing as a Aes Sedai. Now, given that I haven't
read the prequel novel yet, and I'm only at the point in COT where
Egwene and Delana are talking, so there is always the possibility that
I could have missed something.

Nonetheless, Mesaana could be posing as anything from Aes Sedai to a
servant. Knowing the overwhelming egotism of the Forsaken, I doubt
she'd deign to pose as a servant. My initial thought is that she is
the cook who appeared very early in the book - I think she was the one
who helped Suian And Leanne escape the prison.

We also know, from Min's experience before the Breaking of the Tower,
that the Aes Sedai take in women who are in trouble or down on their
luck. It's easy to believe that Mesaana would be posing as a
down-on-her luck noblewoman.

We also know that Rand could weave a pattern that changed the way he
looks. I believe that Asmodean taught him that trick, so it's likely
that Mesaana knows it as well. That could mean a couple of things:

-she's able to change her appearance regularly, appearing as anyone
she wishes just to confuse and throw off tracking.
-She killed a "real" Aes Sedai and took her appearance. That means
that she could be anyone, even someone who has a history.

I can also believe that Mesaana knows some Weaves that would stand the
Aes Sedai on their ears - she could weave patterns that hide her
physical being in plain site, that use compulsion to cover her tracks,
or that do just about anything.

Until we know better, I'm not speculating on who Mesaana might be.
Jordan has obscured and confused so much I don't think he even knows
who is who at this point.

Like I say, gather them all at the last battle and blow them all to
bits, along with the DO. Puts them out of my misery, at least...
Sherm Pendley
2004-09-03 08:50:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by jewahe
Nonetheless, Mesaana could be posing as anything from Aes Sedai to a
servant. Knowing the overwhelming egotism of the Forsaken, I doubt
she'd deign to pose as a servant.
Why not? Lanfear posed as the tub-o-lard Keille (sp?) early on.
Moghedien posed as a servant too - she even allowed one of the BA to
think she was having her beaten.

Naturally, Mesanna wouldn't stoop to actually doing a servant's work,
any more than Moghedien allowed those beatings to actually happen.

sherm--
--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Chucky & Janica
2004-09-03 14:58:19 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, Fri, 03 Sep 2004 04:50:23 -0400 -
there was this guy, or something, called Sherm Pendley
Post by Sherm Pendley
Post by jewahe
Nonetheless, Mesaana could be posing as anything from Aes Sedai to a
servant. Knowing the overwhelming egotism of the Forsaken, I doubt
she'd deign to pose as a servant.
Why not? Lanfear posed as the tub-o-lard Keille (sp?) early on.
Moghedien posed as a servant too - she even allowed one of the BA to
think she was having her beaten.
Naturally, Mesanna wouldn't stoop to actually doing a servant's work,
any more than Moghedien allowed those beatings to actually happen.
But if Mesaana is disguised as Alanna, who is bonded to Rand al'Thor?
If that's Mesaana, there need to be some big smacks going on in
Thakan'dar.







C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Tensai
2004-09-06 22:57:44 UTC
Permalink
Did'nt Rand Shield both Verin and Alanna right after he was Bonded?
what would that do to any illusion she was supposedly wearing?

(not going to mention what happens to Mesaana in CoT)


Andrew Brandon
Chucky & Janica
2004-09-07 14:16:37 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, 6 Sep 2004 15:57:44 -0700 - there was
this guy, or something, called ***@hotmail.com
(Tensai), and they made us all feel better by saying the following
Post by Tensai
Did'nt Rand Shield both Verin and Alanna right after he was Bonded?
what would that do to any illusion she was supposedly wearing?
Good point.






C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Jonas Karlsson
2004-09-07 16:33:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tensai
Did'nt Rand Shield both Verin and Alanna right after he was Bonded?
what would that do to any illusion she was supposedly wearing?
(not going to mention what happens to Mesaana in CoT)
Andrew Brandon
Well, would a shield affect a weave that is tied off?

Jonas
Daniel Holm
2004-09-08 08:16:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonas Karlsson
Post by Tensai
Did'nt Rand Shield both Verin and Alanna right after he was Bonded?
what would that do to any illusion she was supposedly wearing?
(not going to mention what happens to Mesaana in CoT)
Andrew Brandon
Well, would a shield affect a weave that is tied off?
Jonas
No, it wouldn't. A weave that is tied off will dissipate on its own
(though that could take quite a while). If Mesaana is Alanna (which is
quite unlikely, mostly due to the fact that Alanna has a Warder, and
quite a few people know her), she would not have been discovered when
Rand shielded her, as she would of course have inverted and tied off
the weave.

--Daniel Holm
Chucky & Janica
2004-09-08 13:19:08 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, 8 Sep 2004 01:16:44 -0700 - there was
Post by Daniel Holm
No, it wouldn't. A weave that is tied off will dissipate on its own
(though that could take quite a while). If Mesaana is Alanna (which is
quite unlikely, mostly due to the fact that Alanna has a Warder, and
quite a few people know her), she would not have been discovered when
Rand shielded her, as she would of course have inverted and tied off
the weave.
Not to mention the fact that if she was Mesaana, she would have
stopped Rand from shielding her, given him a smack in the face, and
compelled him to kill Aviendha or something.

Or at least, she would have, if this was a decent story with real bad
guys.







C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Tensai
2004-09-13 19:31:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, 8 Sep 2004 01:16:44 -0700 - there was
Post by Daniel Holm
No, it wouldn't. A weave that is tied off will dissipate on its own
(though that could take quite a while). If Mesaana is Alanna (which is
quite unlikely, mostly due to the fact that Alanna has a Warder, and
quite a few people know her), she would not have been discovered when
Rand shielded her, as she would of course have inverted and tied off
the weave.
Not to mention the fact that if she was Mesaana, she would have
stopped Rand from shielding her, given him a smack in the face, and
compelled him to kill Aviendha or something.
Or at least, she would have, if this was a decent story with real bad
guys.
C&J
So what happened when Shaidar Haran visited Mesaana in CoT? did the OP
cease to exist for her because she lost everything including her
disguise.
Chucky & Janica
2004-09-14 13:44:53 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, 13 Sep 2004 12:31:55 -0700 - there was
this guy, or something, called ***@hotmail.com
(Tensai), and they made us all feel better by saying the following
Post by Tensai
Post by Chucky & Janica
Post by Daniel Holm
No, it wouldn't. A weave that is tied off will dissipate on its own
(though that could take quite a while). If Mesaana is Alanna (which is
quite unlikely, mostly due to the fact that Alanna has a Warder, and
quite a few people know her), she would not have been discovered when
Rand shielded her, as she would of course have inverted and tied off
the weave.
Not to mention the fact that if she was Mesaana, she would have
stopped Rand from shielding her, given him a smack in the face, and
compelled him to kill Aviendha or something.
Or at least, she would have, if this was a decent story with real bad
guys.
So what happened when Shaidar Haran visited Mesaana in CoT? did the OP
cease to exist for her because she lost everything including her
disguise.
I'm not sure what this has to do with the post I made and to which
you're replying, but I was under the impression that Shadar Haran, as
a sort of extension of the Dark One, nullifies the One Power in much
the same way as close proximity to the Bore. Where he is, it's just
not possible to channel.

Which will make it interesting if any of these bad-asses ever decide
to try and kill Rand. One day.







C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
David Israel
2004-09-14 19:31:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky & Janica
Once upon a time - for example, 13 Sep 2004 12:31:55 -0700 - there was
(Tensai), and they made us all feel better by saying the following
Post by Tensai
Post by Chucky & Janica
Post by Daniel Holm
No, it wouldn't. A weave that is tied off will dissipate on its own
(though that could take quite a while). If Mesaana is Alanna (which is
quite unlikely, mostly due to the fact that Alanna has a Warder, and
quite a few people know her), she would not have been discovered when
Rand shielded her, as she would of course have inverted and tied off
the weave.
Not to mention the fact that if she was Mesaana, she would have
stopped Rand from shielding her, given him a smack in the face, and
compelled him to kill Aviendha or something.
Or at least, she would have, if this was a decent story with real bad
guys.
So what happened when Shaidar Haran visited Mesaana in CoT? did the OP
cease to exist for her because she lost everything including her
disguise.
I'm not sure what this has to do with the post I made and to which
you're replying, but I was under the impression that Shadar Haran, as
a sort of extension of the Dark One, nullifies the One Power in much
the same way as close proximity to the Bore. Where he is, it's just
not possible to channel.
Which will make it interesting if any of these bad-asses ever decide
to try and kill Rand. One day.
I always thought channeling near the bore was just not allowed, or
dangerous - but possible.

David
Chucky & Janica
2004-09-15 14:46:20 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:31:07 +0300 -
there was this guy, or something, called "David Israel"
Post by David Israel
Post by Chucky & Janica
Post by Tensai
Post by Chucky & Janica
Post by Daniel Holm
No, it wouldn't. A weave that is tied off will dissipate on its own
(though that could take quite a while). If Mesaana is Alanna (which is
quite unlikely, mostly due to the fact that Alanna has a Warder, and
quite a few people know her), she would not have been discovered when
Rand shielded her, as she would of course have inverted and tied off
the weave.
Not to mention the fact that if she was Mesaana, she would have
stopped Rand from shielding her, given him a smack in the face, and
compelled him to kill Aviendha or something.
Or at least, she would have, if this was a decent story with real bad
guys.
So what happened when Shaidar Haran visited Mesaana in CoT? did the OP
cease to exist for her because she lost everything including her
disguise.
I'm not sure what this has to do with the post I made and to which
you're replying, but I was under the impression that Shadar Haran, as
a sort of extension of the Dark One, nullifies the One Power in much
the same way as close proximity to the Bore. Where he is, it's just
not possible to channel.
Which will make it interesting if any of these bad-asses ever decide
to try and kill Rand. One day.
I always thought channeling near the bore was just not allowed, or
dangerous - but possible.
I have a feeling that if one tried it, one would be hurt and probably
stilled or gentled or killed.

I thought it easiest to say that it wasn't possible. Either way, since
Shadar Haran is an extension of the Dark One, it must be fair enough
to say that he's able to nullify the One Power somehow.







C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Auwerda1
2004-09-10 14:31:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonas Karlsson
Post by Tensai
Did'nt Rand Shield both Verin and Alanna right after he was Bonded?
what would that do to any illusion she was supposedly wearing?
(not going to mention what happens to Mesaana in CoT)
Andrew Brandon
Well, would a shield affect a weave that is tied off?
Jonas
Nope. Robert jordan replied to almost the same question here.
(http://www.tor.com/jordan/questions.html) Check week 7. It says that a
tied off weave could be kept in affect even if the channeler was dead.
NASCARFORUS4
2004-09-11 00:53:12 UTC
Permalink
No because Messana is tucked away in the White Tower. She is the one ordering
Alviarin around.
Chucky & Janica
2004-09-12 05:40:22 UTC
Permalink
Once upon a time - for example, 11 Sep 2004 00:53:12 GMT - there was
Post by NASCARFORUS4
No because Messana is tucked away in the White Tower. She is the one ordering
Alviarin around.
Except, of course, if Mesaana were somehow Alanna, she could still be
making herself known in the Tower, via the oh-so-underutilised skill
of Traveling.






C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.

- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Tim Bruening
2010-04-06 00:29:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Hamner
Could Alana be Mesana in disguise?
What is the color of Alanna's dress?

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